In ear monitors

Dan Klotz · Post by **Dan Klotz** » 17 Jun 2015 2:30 pm

I was wondering how many of you use in ear monitors? If so, a couple of questions:

1. Do you find to harder to play in tune?
2. Is it hard for you find the "happy place" where you can hear everything in the mix, without being too loud, or not loud enough through your dynamic range.
3. Do you use both ears in or one in/ one out?
4. If you're using both ears in, you can only hear yourself through the monitors? Do you run direct or still use an amp?
5. Do you have the high dollar ear buds?

We've talked about this a little in another thread but I'd like to revisit the subject. I'm playing with a band where everyone uses in ear monitors. I don't mind using them when playing guitar but I'm not very fond of them when I'm playing steel. I'm just using the buds that came with my Sennheiser. The rest of the guys are using the 6 driver Ultimate Ears and they love them. I dont know if it's worth spending that much money on them or if I'd still hate them. Maybe I should go mid-level first but I hate to waste money on not getting the good stuff if that's what's needed. You know, buy the best- cry once. Buy cheap, cry twice.

I feel like I have more intonation issues when I'm using IEM than not. It could be from using one in. one out.... or could it be that i just hear everything better and notice more? I'm about 2 years into playing steel, but I've been a musician for a long time. I hear when things are out of tune, I just dont always know the reason (bar placement, string or pedal out of tune, etc).

Also- I think the guitar player is using a sweetened tuning on his Peterson. I've noticed some clash when we both play guitar, but I assumed an intonation issues when I'm on steel is me. Has anybody else dealt with clashes from the sweetened tunings?

I've been recording my gigs lately. I do have a gig tomorrow that is stripped down- we use wedges, no IEM's. I'm going to record it. Im curious if my intonation will be better.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 17 Jun 2015 5:05 pm

Dan,
The gospel group I play with went to the ear monitor system and I absolutely love them. We are using a Mackey board with an Ipad. With the setup I have, I use my iPhone to get my mix that way I want it and it is just like being in the studio.

We travel quite a bit so I have a rack system I use no amp and I run direct to the board. I use both ears in and for some reason I feel like I'm in my studio playing, so I play with no hesitation, no tension or nerves at all.

I'm not sure what ear buds we use, I think they go for $300.00 a set.

We don't use floor monitors at all, the whole group uses them and it is taking the singers a little to get use to them.

For me it is a great thing,

Dan

Dan Klotz · Post by **Dan Klotz** » 17 Jun 2015 6:04 pm

Dan, thanks for the input. What are you using to run direct?

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 18 Jun 2015 5:15 am

Dan B., what Mackie system are you using? The guy I work for most often, Houston Marchman ( http://www.houstonmarchman.com - shameless plug) just upgraded his entire system with a Mackie DL32R (w/iPad controller). It's cool, I did a sort of mini-review of it here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=283149

I use in-ears for some gigs, usually bigger rooms with bigger stages where the band tends to scatter out. Other times where we're on small stages and tight, I don't use any monitor, we just get a good stage blend. Fortunately the guys in this band are all seasoned players, so the stage balance is good. We do have a couple of floor monitors, one back by the drummer and another that floats around wherever, usually near the bass player.

When I use in-ears I use a dedicated Aux out from the DL32R. My setup is an inexpensive in-ear amp (Behringer PowerPlay P1, $50) and the cheaper Shure in-ears (SE215, $100). The sound quality is fine for me, although I'm considering fitted in-ears just for the comfort factor. I opted for a wired vs wireless rig because I don't jump around too much at the steel. A long XLR cable to my belt pack isn't inconvenient at all. The cool thing is I have a 'retired' iPhone 4S, and I have the Mackie app you talked about that lets me connect to the DL32R and run my own Aux mix. Screen cap below.. You're right, it's great.

In my opinion, when the in-ear mix is good, they're great. When it's not, they suck. Having the ability to get your mix right, on the fly, from your seat makes all the difference. I do play through an amp mic'd up, so sometimes with the in-ears on I have to check that what I'm hearing is what I'm hearing, if that makes any sense??

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Jun 2015 9:11 am

are people using these for normal gigs?
barrooms, lodges, clubs, outside gigs?
i can understand maybe using them for huge concert venues, but anything else seems a little pretentious or at least unnecessary.

Doug Clark · Post by **Doug Clark** » 18 Jun 2015 10:16 am

chris ivey wrote:are people using these for normal gigs?
barrooms, lodges, clubs, outside gigs?

From what I've been reading recently, IEM can be handy for even a solo performer doing an outdoor gig. Between ambient noise and maybe even a breeze whisking the sound waves away, it can help keep tabs on your sound.

Who's using a limiter on their system, as that "brick wall" to block sudden unexpected sound level spikes from damaging ears or equipment?

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 18 Jun 2015 10:32 am

are people using these for normal gigs?
barrooms, lodges, clubs, outside gigs?

Our front guy uses them on every gig, he claims that he just hears better, pitch etc. As for the rest of the band I'm the only other member using them, and I'd say I use them about 1 in 10 gigs maybe. There are some rooms, or outdoor venues where I just can't hear very well for whatever reason, and for those the in-ear is a good solution. It's a fairly recent experiment for me, until I had the ability to mix my own cue I wasn't that interested.

I certainly don't use them if I don't have to, one less thing to worry about, but they are useful at times. YMMV..

Fraser Moffatt · Post by **Fraser Moffatt** » 18 Jun 2015 2:54 pm

We've been using IEMs in the band i play bass in. I'm actually not that crazy about them. My biggest complaint is that the sound quality is pretty sterile compared to the sound coming off the stage/from the amps and drums. My second complaint is getting a good mix but that's the personal monitor mixer, not the IEM, that is the root of the problem. For the record I'm using the Shure 215 bud, the frontman has custom molded hobbies.

We had a sub blow last gig and I ended up putting the bass through my cab to get sounds to FOH. I pulled one bud out so I could hear stage sound and kept one bud in to hear my backing vox etc. Spent the next week or so with some kind of inner ear thing that made me dizzy and nauseous.

Overall, the IEM as I have experienced it has not been optimal and has been somewhat distracting. We play smaller venues and, yes, IEMs come off as a bit pretentious.

We've done a good number of events lately where the house PA was set up and we used stage wedge monitors. We performed just fine.

Next gig I'll be bringing my wedge monitor and dispense with IEMs.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Jun 2015 3:11 pm

one other question..i've lost most hearing in my right ear this year. can they work sort of like a hearing aid in really boosting one side or the other?

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 18 Jun 2015 5:07 pm

Chris, don't know about one ear being louder or not, but I found this a while back discussing the habit of one IEM in and one out:

http://www.1964ears.com/blog/2014/07/07 ... r-monitor/

According to that it's a bad idea, but you see a lot of guys do it. But that's not really what you asked, maybe semi-relevant? At least that seems to imply you wouldn't want to boost your bad ear by itself.

I don't really see IEMs as pretentious. Me unloading nearly $5K in gear and then doing what I do would be way more pretentious.

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 18 Jun 2015 6:24 pm

I use IEM's for a church gig I ocassionally do. Everyone is required to use them along with a personal Avion mixer. The Aviom mix includes a channel of two ambient stage mics to sweeten things up a bit. My steel is run into my pre amp by my side and into my Furlong in an isolation box backstage with two mics on it.

I started out with some good Sennheiser buds that I had and them purchased a set of 1964 V6S's. The 1964's are a bit hard on the pocketbook but highly recommended if you can stand the hit to your bank account. They were universally recommended to me by every one of the great players in the church rotation.

One of my friend's groups use IEM's for small bar etc gigs with the iPhone mix. He says he wishes he could use them for every job he does.

Fraser Moffatt · Post by **Fraser Moffatt** » 18 Jun 2015 7:28 pm

chris ivey wrote:one other question..i've lost most hearing in my right ear this year. can they work sort of like a hearing aid in really boosting one side or the other?

Alone, probably not. In our setup with the personal monitor mixer (Behringer something or other), you could maybe adjust the pan more to the R to accommodate your hearing loss.

Actually, you might be able to do this at the board in your monitor mix - you might have to have a mix (aux channel?) for yourself though, not to throw everyone else off!

Doug Clark · Post by **Doug Clark** » 18 Jun 2015 7:54 pm

Bill Terry wrote:Chris, don't know about one ear being louder or not, but I found this a while back discussing the habit of one IEM in and one out:

I saw that on a different forum, but I don't think "binaural summation" was mentioned. I forgot about it until now, but as mentioned in the comments below the article, the 6 dB increase is four times the sound pressure level.

I don't really see IEMs as pretentious. Me unloading nearly $5K in gear and then doing what I do would be way more pretentious.

Me, too. Good one.

Justin Emmert · Post by **Justin Emmert** » 19 Jun 2015 11:43 am

I use IEM's for my church gig. Mostly for bass, but have played pedal steel with the worship group before. I use the Shure SE315's, which are dual driver ears, but mostly cause theyre tuned a bit more for the bottome end. I have had quad drivers before and did not find a big enough difference in the quads and duals to spend a bunch of money on a bunch of "drivers". The rest of the band uses the $99 Shures with no complaints. No custom molds cause I don't do a bunch of singing or jumping around on stage. I'm a big fan of IEM's as long as I'm able to get a good in ear mix. Our church board has limited aux outs, so I usually share a channel with the drummer when playing bass. As long as there's a good sound guy who will do what you ask, it normally sounds better in my ears than front of house. With steel, I usually go onto a singers channel and that's where it gets tricky. For my regular country band, it's just floor wedges.....we're poor.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 21 Jun 2015 7:16 pm

Bill,
Exactly this:

Mackie DL32R (w/iPad controller)

And I'm also using the same app you showed in the image for my iPhone. Love it all

Dan

Charlie Thompson · Post by **Charlie Thompson** » 22 Jun 2015 10:12 am

I've use IEMs many times when playing guitar in a rock band. I've only used them a few time while playing steel.

When using both ears its a little weird because you aren't hearing room noise. Using an ambient mic can help with this.

If everyone in the band is using in ears, you need a good sound man because you have no clue if you are singing and playing at the proper level.

I have used only one earpiece with some success...lets you hear the room but its probably not good for your hearing in general.

I'd really like to try using them again for steel because I think it would help with pitch especially in louder bands. Most of the other players in bands that I play in do not use them - there always seems to be sufficient stage monitors

David Cubbedge · Post by **David Cubbedge** » 23 Jun 2015 8:33 am

I'm doing shows with a top 40 country band that uses in-ears. No amps. I run my steel through a Pod XT and have it pretty dominant in my monitor mix. Took a bit to set up properly, but it works fine now and saves my old back from lugging the Twin everywhere. I use Shure ES210 (I believe), about $100 per pair at Guitar Center.

Michael Hartz · Post by **Michael Hartz** » 25 Jun 2015 8:39 am

I use in-ears for every job, I run xlr left and right out of my Revelation preamp directly into our Crest xrm monitor board. I leave both ears in as I am running a stereo mix to my Shure psm 600 wireless unit into Fidelity dual driver custom buds. The sound is UNBELIEVABLE! You don't need all these multiple driver ear buds on the market right now, most guitar players prefer dual driver buds and I would agree with that. The mix can be set to your preferences, of course my steel is loudest in my mix but I have everyone in the band in my mix with more kick drum and bass guitar than the rest because I like the low end feel. I would NEVER go back now, it feels like your playing along on a CD. Don't go cheap on components though, You get what you pay for. Stay away from the lower end Shure stuff as it distorts easily, you can find Shure psm 600 systems ( concert sound standard for many years) on Ebay for great prices and Sennheiser makes great systems also. Same for the earbuds- get as good quality as you can afford.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 14 Aug 2015 9:14 am

I was playing in a very large club and the sound man asked me to use IEM's. I tried them and hated them. I spent years getting the right set up for tone and then I am asked to use these ridiculous tinny sounding things in my ears. Not me! I don't sing and I can understand how a vocalist would benefit but not for steel. Just my opinion.

Michael Hartz · Post by **Michael Hartz** » 16 Aug 2015 12:46 pm

They must of had you use really cheap ear buds, my dual driver custom ear buds running a stereo mix give me the biggest warmest tone I've ever had. Almost like 3D audio.

Cody Angel · Post by **Cody Angel** » 16 Aug 2015 3:02 pm

I use them and love them both in. i use either a Stereo Steel or Nashville 1000 direct. I can hear them only because my in ears aren't high dollar. You get what you pay for, but even cheap ones allow you to have a much greater control over what you need to hear than any wedge. As far as tuning, you can hear anything you want, so if you trust the fiddle and guitar, it's easy. The fiddler I work with is a monster and a rock on tuning, so I love the ears because I can mix and play with him in a very constant way from night to night.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 17 Aug 2015 4:30 am

I played in the movie Crazy Heart with Jeff Bridges. I used them then. Sound man told me they were $1200 each. Hated them then as well. I need to hear my speakers.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 17 Aug 2015 5:31 am

Dan Klotz wrote:I was wondering how many of you use in ear monitors? If so, a couple of questions:

1. Do you find to harder to play in tune?
2. Is it hard for you find the "happy place" where you can hear everything in the mix, without being too loud, or not loud enough through your dynamic range.
3. Do you use both ears in or one in/ one out?
4. If you're using both ears in, you can only hear yourself through the monitors? Do you run direct or still use an amp?
5. Do you have the high dollar ear buds?

1. It is much easier for me to play in tune with IEMs.
2. Not as hard as trying to find my "happy place" with subs blasting 60hrz under the stage, loud players or deaf singers with ear bleed level wedges.
3 WHOAA !!!! Never NEVER NEVER use only one ear !It gives you a distorted perspective and can cause very serious ear damage. For you guys that like to pull one ear out for that rock star look you can look forward to being like one of those baby boomer players that used play well that now has a shrill annoying tone and is out of tune in just a few years.
4. Depends on the gig.
5. Pretty good molded ear buds with dual drivers from Westone. They are just plain great quality headphones also.

The main thing about IEMs is that if they are molded or fit real well is that you can get whatever you need to play. I prefer playing with bands and in situations that are not too loud. But this is often not possible. With IEMs you can bring down the overall DB level and reduce that 60 hrz and below rumble that sound guys seem love to functional levels.

Doug Garrick · Post by **Doug Garrick** » 22 Aug 2015 8:38 am

My experience on Thursday night reinforces what Bob Hoffnar said about good molded ear buds. It was so loud on stage that the level of noise bleeding through my cheap ear buds made it too dangerous to turn my in ear monitor up enough to be heard over the band. I traded the in ear monitor for an ear plug about 6 songs in.

Doug Clark · Post by **Doug Clark** » 22 Aug 2015 10:53 am

Doug Garrick wrote:I traded the in ear monitor for an ear plug about 6 songs in.

Maybe I'm misreading something, but hasn't the potential danger (of hearing damage) from wearing one IEM been mentioned a number of times already? "Binaural summation" and all that technical stuff: from Mix magazine as well as from one manufacturer http://www.1964ears.com/blog/2014/07/07 ... ar-monitor

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