E9 to C6

John Anderson · Post by **John Anderson** » 17 Jul 2004 7:29 pm

I would like to know how easy it is to change an existing E9 s10 to a C6 or maybe an E7 sacred steel setup. I mostly play jazz and Hawaiian music on c6 non pedal and don't really need an E9 neck but most (if not all) used s10s seem to be E9.

Thanks,

John Anderson

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Jul 2004 9:04 pm

Yes, I would say that well over 99% of all S-10 PSG's made in the last 30 yrs will be E9th.

But you can change them. If you are mechanically inclined, it should represent little challenge, UNLESS you happen to get a hold of certain PSG's where changes are fixed. Such as a Sho-Bud Maverick or a Carter Starter.

If you play a lot of Jerry Byrd type C6, and your S-10 PSG is one that can be changed, I would suggest the following:

<pre>

1 2 3 4 LKL (LKV) LKR RKL RKR

G F#
E F
C D (C#) B
A Bb Ab
G F#
E F Eb
C D C# (C#)
A Bb
F F# E
C D A
</pre>

Note: if you do not have a left knee vertical (LKV), ignore these changes. If you only have 3 pedals, try as hard as you can to add one. I cannot recommend 4 pedals strongly enough.

Here is why, since you play a lot of C6 lap steel, the above setup will give you every single chord Jerry Byrd gets on his 8 string lap steel. And you need every change I have listed if you do not want to slant.

This setup with, one minor exception, even gives you Jerry's unique diatonic tuning. Everything is there. I know of nothing that is left out considering every one of Jerry's awesome forward and reverse slants as well as his unique forward and reverse split slants.

If I was going to have an S-10 PSG for C6, this is precisely the minimum I could live with. If you absolutely can only have 3 and 4, then eleminate the changes on pedal 3 and put the changes on pedal 4 there; and of course give up the changes on LKV. But you are going to have to slant the bar occassionally.

To play it, use pedals 1 and 2 as your home base pedals. These changes Along with RKL and RKR will allow all kinds of major to minor, 7th and 9th interval resolves. Pedal 3 is JB's oft used "9th" slant. Only here, you have the entire 10 strings available in the 9th chord. It does not get any better than this.

Pedal 4 is of course his famous A7/C6 tuning. LKL allows his augmented on strings 2, 3 and 4. If you use this knee lever with RKR, it will give you classic Jerry Byrd C6 where he gets the first inversion of a relative minor 5 frets up from the major chord fret. Note: you will only go 4 frets up with these changes.

Pedal 3 and LKV gives you a big A6. RKL and LKR gives you Jerry's classic backward V7 to I chord resolve on strings 3 and 6. Only with this you can use the 4th string to embellish the chord.

RKR and LKV gives you an aug7 chord which can resolve to a I major chord if you let off of them and bring in LKR and pedals 1 and 2.

There is much more.

If you can possibly do all of these changes, you will have one very fine S-10 C6 PSG I believe.

Note: if you happen to locate an 8 string PSG that has at least 4 and 4, eliminate strings 1 and 10 above and eliminate the changes on LKV.

Good luck and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 17 July 2004 at 10:12 PM.]

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 17 Jul 2004 11:32 pm

Here is an interesting article about the DEVIS 10-string Universal Pedal Steel Guitar.
Hope this helps!

------------------

Peter den Hartogh
78 Emmons S10 P/P; Fender Artist S10;
Remington U12; Gibson BR4; Guya "Stringmaster"
My Animation College in South Africa

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 18 Jul 2004 3:38 am

[This message was edited by Peter on 18 July 2004 at 04:40 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jul 2004 8:05 am

The biggest challenge is that most used S-10s have only 3 pedals. The standard C6th has 5 pedals and one knee lever. Modern thinking has added 2 or 3 more knee levers.

Many people have abandoned the first C6th pedal (the P4 on a D-10), but I don't think that moving any of the other pedals to a knee is a good idea for a beginner. In contrast with my good friend Carl, I recommend getting as close to Buddy Emmons' copedent as you can:

This will put you in sync with most instructional material. If you have to give up something, you should be aware that P4 is the least used pedal, and the A to Ab is the least used knee lever. For a 3+4 S-10 guitar, you could use the center 3 pedals and move P8 to LKL. You'd be much better off learning with 4 or 5 pedals, though.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 18 Jul 2004 9:23 am

b0b is absolutely correct IF; a person wishes to play C6 the way most D-10 pedal steel players do it.

I considered this when I read the author's comments about he loved to play C6 lap steel and gospel music. Based on that I could NOT recommend BE's C6 PSG copedent.

If the author really means he wishes to play C6 like most D-10 players play it, then by all means simply copy as much of Buddy's C6 copedent as you have pedal and knee levers to accomplish it.

On the other hand, if you hear and try to play C6 like Jerry Byrd does, the standard C6 PSG tuning is woefully inadaquate.

carl

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Jul 2004 1:23 pm

Both ways are quite interesting takes on the same problem.

If you are an acomplished Byrd style C6er, then Carl's way makes sense if you want to continue with more power available. Or Byrd with moving voices and bigger chords.

On the other hand what b0b says also rings quite true.
Depends on your direction.
I have done modifications from b0b's starting point, but Carl's seems like something I would also want on another steel.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 July 2004 at 02:24 PM.]

John Anderson · Post by **John Anderson** » 18 Jul 2004 3:52 pm

Thanks a lot for all of the comments. I hadn't thought about the need for the extra pedals. Perhaps starting from a u12 might work better.