Question for you double neck players?

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 27 May 2015 12:32 pm

Glen Derksen wrote:Check out these Youtube videos. Curly Chalker is playing the C6 neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLn_PC740fU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR5SkLhwuEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F_azIdWfWk

All of those are on E9. He had E9 on his back neck and C6 on the front.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 27 May 2015 1:02 pm

Bill Davison wrote:Speaking of laptops: I notice that Doug Beaumier plays the laptop. I wonder what tuning he uses?

Doug has multiple courses available for 6-string C6 tuning. The one I have is excellent. You won't be disappointed with any of Doug's material.

Be forewarned that the little 6-string lap steel tuned to C6 is addicting. You may discover that you don't really need all the hassles of mashing pedals and kicking levers, not to mention the issues associated with tuning and set-up.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 27 May 2015 1:46 pm

Bill Davison wrote:Speaking of laptops: I notice that Doug Beaumier plays the laptop. I wonder what tuning he uses?

I have a Lenovo laptop. My 'tuning' is Windows 7

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I have used the C6 neck quite a bit, but not in the last couple of years while playing in new country bands.

If I was just starting today, knowing what my musical career was going to be like, I would seriously look at a U12 Universal.

Bill Davison · Post by **Bill Davison** » 27 May 2015 1:53 pm

Jack Hanson wrote:

Be forewarned that the little 6-string lap steel tuned to C6 is addicting. You may discover that you don't really need all the hassles of mashing pedals and kicking levers, not to mention the issues associated with tuning and set-up.

I don't know Jack I finally got a great pedal steel (Justice Pro Lite). Plays real nice. May not want to be tempted and just let that ol laptop stay in the closet. Na, just kidding, I think I'll drag it out and give the C6 a try. Just can't think that it'll play better than the Justice.

Drew Pierce · Post by **Drew Pierce** » 27 May 2015 2:21 pm

After switching back to an S10 after years of playing D10, I found that I really missed the C6, especially on blues, jazz, swing and '50s rock-type tunes, like Blue Suede Shoes and Whole Lotta Shakin'. You can get a lot of those sounds on E9, but it is not a complete substitute by any means. That said, here is an example of great C6-type sounds on the E9 neck. The late, great, Dickey Overby, I believe, on a classic break on Hank Jr.'s Family Tradition, at 2:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd0TGfZSACI

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 27 May 2015 4:35 pm

That C6 neck will get you fired!

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 27 May 2015 4:45 pm

Jim Smith wrote:
Glen Derksen wrote:Check out these Youtube videos. Curly Chalker is playing the C6 neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLn_PC740fU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR5SkLhwuEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F_azIdWfWk
All of those are on E9. He had E9 on his back neck and C6 on the front.

I should've known better!

Drew Pierce · Post by **Drew Pierce** » 27 May 2015 5:39 pm

Glen Derksen wrote:
Jim Smith wrote:
Glen Derksen wrote:Check out these Youtube videos. Curly Chalker is playing the C6 neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLn_PC740fU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR5SkLhwuEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F_azIdWfWk
All of those are on E9. He had E9 on his back neck and C6 on the front.
I should've known better!

Ralph Mooney also had 'em set up backwards like that.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 27 May 2015 9:24 pm

It was great to hear Chalker play E9...its more accessible (to me) than I recall his more sophisticated 6th stuff. Clearly an amazing talent.

Sez Adamson · Post by **Sez Adamson** » 28 May 2015 2:11 am

Just my pennies worth.
From a chordal perspective, I view the E9th tuning as being ideal for facilitating straight minor and major diads and triads; and the C6th tuning as being ideal for facilitating minor 7ths, major 7ths, altered chords (#5, b5, #9, b9, etc), and with a much wider spread of notes. Diminished and augmented chords are somewhat common to both tunings, again with the C6th tuning facilitating a wider spread of notes.
@ Bill; my first Steel was a S10, E9th (late 70's). I played lots of Country at weekends, till the local South African singers all started using backtracks at their shows from the early 80's; hence no gigs for backing bands. I hardly played till I retired in 2002. Then started again on C6th where I could play the American Songbook Standards (at home for my own amusement) without having to be too dependent on other musicians.
I would love to be playing more E9th, but it's not my 'forte'. My first great influences were Lloyd, and Jaydee.
I do however use a couple of return springs on the E9th neck to facilitate half stops on my C6th neck (Thanks to Jim Palenscar for his explanation of how to do it).

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 28 May 2015 6:39 am

Tom Gorr wrote:It was great to hear Chalker play E9...its more accessible (to me) than I recall his more sophisticated 6th stuff. Clearly an amazing talent.

The 1976 album "Nashville Sundown" features Curly Chalker playing Gordon Lightfoot songs on E9. Excellent record that features tasteful and virtuosic playing from Mr. Chalker and the Nashville A-Team, featuring the incomparable Charlie McCoy in his prime.

Check out the steel solo on "Alberta Bound." Curly goes so far out on a limb you'll wonder if he'll ever return, but somehow he pulls it off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9NjOOT7zQo

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 28 May 2015 1:54 pm

here's some curls..
these don't even hint at the incredible master of the c6 that he was. a genius!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkXkouI ... at&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUNjISx ... UNjISx0aFM

Drew Pierce · Post by **Drew Pierce** » 28 May 2015 2:37 pm

Great stuff, Chris. Thanks. I'm checkin' out Curley's right hand on that second video. Notice he never looks at it. Damn....

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 28 May 2015 3:12 pm

here's a funny early one. it looks like they were in a part of noah's ark that broke off and drifted over to oklahoma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHBdUuY ... FM&index=4

Bill Davison · Post by **Bill Davison** » 28 May 2015 3:25 pm

Well, I have to admit that after listening to a bunch of songs by different players all on the C6 tuning, it does sound pretty good......and different than the E9.

Bill Davison · Post by **Bill Davison** » 29 May 2015 8:27 am

David Hartley and Mark Dunn playing Crazy Arms. At the end of the song, Mark gives David a lesson on the Cth tuning. I've never seen David Hartley play the Cth. Thought this was interesting. I wouldn't think David Hartley would need teaching from anyone. Guess that confirms that you're never to old to learn something new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txZ_a7Wj7rI

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 29 May 2015 9:46 am

That's right Chris, it's a nozark

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 29 May 2015 10:15 am

nozark

yep that dunn hartley duet is a fine example of parts that are distinctly 9 or 6...with a few brief moments of 6 playing 9 and 9 playing 6...great find.

What a great thread.

Joe Stoddard · Post by **Joe Stoddard** » 1 Jun 2015 11:50 am

Bill Davison wrote: What will the C6 tuning do that the E9 won't?

Bill - this is an over-simplification and I am a noob myself - but in general I'd associate the E9 neck with modern country "Nashville" music and pop tunes where a pedal steel guitar is in-use.

The C6 neck, aside from being much lower in pitch and different in timbre, Is what I'd associate with "Western Swing" (aka "Cowboy Swing", "Cowboy Boogie" etc) and has evolved from the stand-up non-pedal steel guitars you'd see in-use by the Bob Wills band and similar. Also the popular "Hawaiian Swing" genre from the '30s-'40s... The tuning lends itself to more advanced/extended "jazz" chords - I love that sound - it's what drew me into steel guitar in the first place - much more than the modern E9 sound. But being a noob -I was shocked to learn that so much of what I liked had been recorded long before any "Pedal" steel guitars existed. Even today- you'll find C6 players doing much more bar slants, "finger picking" patterns, full-chord "strums", and other techniques that you could have just as easily seen a non-pedal player doing "back in the day". And many of those same players are comfortable with or without the pedals (Bobbe Seymour R.I.P. comes to mind) Or a great young player today Joel Paterson (Chicago). He really nails the C6 vibe (and is an excellent 6-string picker too) . I have never tried a universal tuning - but my understanding is that a 12-string universal can comp the same basic range and sound of a C6+E9 in a single neck.

Bill Davison · Post by **Bill Davison** » 1 Jun 2015 12:37 pm

Thanks Joe,
Well, I dug my old six string laptop out and tuned it to C6 (had it tuned to E7th) Really sounds good and I can see where it would be intuitive. First thing I noticed about playing it, was that I kept reaching for the pedals and knee levers. I think it will be a lot of fun playing around with it.

James Quillian · Post by **James Quillian** » 2 Jun 2015 2:58 pm

IMO, both necks have a lot of untapped potential. As good as some are at getting C6 sounds on the E9 neck, I think the same thing played on the C6 neck still sounds better.

I am not a professional steel player. I enjoy carrying on the two neck tradition and conserving the music and style that goes with each.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 Jun 2015 3:16 pm

C6 doesn't have the pedal A+B combination to give you the subdominant. Neither does it have the top two re-entrant strings like E9 does. So there's more bar movement, and there's nothing in E9 like those rich chords that you get in C6 when you slide a full chord up the fingerboard. To my mind, they have totally different sounds, and I dispute that you can play most C6 riffs on E9. E9 has a string missing right in the middle compared to C6.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 2 Jun 2015 4:01 pm

Alan Brookes wrote:C6 doesn't have ... the top two re-entrant strings like E9 does.

C6th strings 1 (D) and 4 (A) serve the same purpose as E9th strings 1 (F#) and 2 (D#).

E9 has a string missing right in the middle compared to C6.

C6th has a string missing right in the middle compared to E9th.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 2 Jun 2015 4:01 pm

Back in the 70's and 80's, I had some a non-standard change on my C6, that "duplicated" E9 licks. I played Bud's Bounce for the opening and closing songs for a TV show that my band was the "house" band. I talked with other players and they couldn't tell the difference.

Norman Evans · Post by **Norman Evans** » 2 Jun 2015 4:52 pm

C6 on E9.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jZlyQJ ... Mjq6rLMAbV

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