How do PSGs work?

Jason Bergeron · Post by **Jason Bergeron** » 23 May 2015 5:28 am

Just curious...I've heard of push-pull and all pull guitars, but never really fully understood what that means. Mine is a Sho~Bud Super Pro, I believe it's all pull, but not sure.

I assume that a mechanism that pulls the strings causes the change in tuning, but if that's the case, how does a push type work?

I saw an old Sierra pedal steel the other day, and instead of rods, it had cables underneath.....interesting!

Can someone explain to me the different types and how they work?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 May 2015 5:51 am

The changers can all raise and lower.
Push-pull explained here https://www.steelguitar.com/maps/changerPP.html
All-pull here https://www.steelguitar.com/maps/changer.html

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 23 May 2015 7:15 am

"How do PSGs work?" In my case, not very much or very often these days! $:\$

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 May 2015 9:11 am

go back to the first day of the steel guitar forum and read every post. that will answer your question!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 May 2015 9:26 am

Chris, there's a lot of people who drive cars that have no idea what all those lumps under the hood are.
It's the same thing here. A player doesn't NEED to know how it works in order to play it: in fact, a newbie should probably benefit from stone hard ignorance. If they approach the underside like a medieval map with the changer marked "here be dragons," s/he will just get on with the business of playing the top side.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 May 2015 9:55 am

well i see it a little differently. i think a player should accept the responsibility of attaining a working knowledge of their main tool.
the pedal steel is dependent on it's mechanical design.
would you be comfortable driving your trucks with no idea of the mechanics involved?

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 23 May 2015 11:31 am

They don't work, they are lazier than hell.
They are freeloaders, they depend on others for survival.

Of course the musician behind them is moving most of the muscles in their body.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 23 May 2015 12:08 pm

I think that, every steel player should have a decent knowledge of how his " mechanical machine " works. One stupid little thing can and will cause havoc and frustration and having a basic knowledge of how it works is a great help. The whole concept of the guitar can seem confusing and intimidating because of the mechanisms and some people will shy away from troubleshooting. But, having a knowledge of it can save hours of frustration.

Jason Bergeron · Post by **Jason Bergeron** » 23 May 2015 1:15 pm

chris ivey wrote:go back to the first day of the steel guitar forum and read every post. that will answer your question!

you've been a member here for over 4 years. it's baffling to me that you don't have a clue. have you play been playing the steel all this time?

I've only been playing for a few months.

Abe Levy · Post by **Abe Levy** » 23 May 2015 1:21 pm

If you can't explain how the internet works, you shouldn't use it...

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 23 May 2015 1:43 pm

Jason Bergeron wrote:
chris ivey wrote:go back to the first day of the steel guitar forum and read every post. that will answer your question!

you've been a member here for over 4 years. it's baffling to me that you don't have a clue. have you play been playing the steel all this time?
I've only been playing for a few months.

Jason,
Learn to ignore Ivey. He a bit narcissistic and loves to insult people. Ask your questions and others will answer you.
JB

Jason Bergeron · Post by **Jason Bergeron** » 23 May 2015 1:49 pm

John Booth wrote:
Jason Bergeron wrote:
chris ivey wrote:go back to the first day of the steel guitar forum and read every post. that will answer your question!

you've been a member here for over 4 years. it's baffling to me that you don't have a clue. have you play been playing the steel all this time?
I've only been playing for a few months.
Jason,
Learn to ignore Ivey. He a bit narcissistic and loves to insult people. Ask your questions and others will answer you.
JB

Thank you, Mr. Booth! Isn't that what the "PSG Family" here is for...to love the instrument and learn from one another?

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 23 May 2015 1:53 pm

I watched Terry Bethel having trouble with his Mullen G2, at The Tulsa Steel Show Fri. afternoon. Seems it just wouldn't tune up to his liking. So, Mickey Adams breaks out his tuner, and tells Terry to hit this pedal, and that knee lever, some tuning wrench adjustments, and wadda ya know, problem solved....Terry had messed with it, and was really frustrated that he couldn't get it to tune up, and with his recent back surgery there was no way he could crawl under it or work on it. Mickey saved the day.....If something goes south on my Emmons, I'm not afraid to pull it apart and fix it, the only problem being, I've never taken a steel guitar apart....It all depends on, if funds are available for repairs, which sometimes can cost more to fix my mistakes than to just have a pro do it in the first place....Since I've had my Emmons LGII for 10yrs., I have studied the mechanics, understand how it works, and believe that even serious repairs can be accomplished with time and attention to detail.

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 23 May 2015 2:21 pm

Thank you, Mr. Booth! Isn't that what the "PSG Family" here is for...to love the instrument and learn from one another?

No problem Brother. Keep Pickin.
JB

DG Whitley · Post by **DG Whitley** » 23 May 2015 2:29 pm

...deleted...

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 23 May 2015 2:32 pm

DG Whitley wrote:I can identify with both sides on this. It can be a bit intimidating to look at the "dragons" on the underside of a PSG, but I think we should at least learn how to maintain our instrument if nothing else.

And how do you learn without asking Brother?
JB

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 23 May 2015 2:36 pm

Lane Gray wrote:Chris, there's a lot of people who drive cars that have no idea what all those lumps under the hood are.
It's the same thing here. A player doesn't NEED to know how it works in order to play it: in fact, a newbie should probably benefit from stone hard ignorance. If they approach the underside like a medieval map with the changer marked "here be dragons," s/he will just get on with the business of playing the top side.

I agree. I eventually learned how to work on the undercarriage, but only after I had a played for couple of years.

However, I still prefer to have Jim P. work on my guitars when they need anything done. He does a much better job than I could.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 May 2015 2:42 pm

I'm really disappointed by all of the useless replies to this topic. $:\$

DG Whitley · Post by **DG Whitley** » 23 May 2015 2:47 pm

...deleted...

James Quillian · Post by **James Quillian** » 23 May 2015 3:56 pm

I think I understand now why Jason doesn't know. Not one person has answered his simple question or even told him where to get the information.

It appears that he actually is trying to learn the details of his guitar but is not getting anywhere right here.

I confess, although I have learned how my guitar works and can work on it some, I don't know the difference for sure between push/pull all pull etc.

Each individual is born with complete control over how he spends his time and energy. With limited time to work with, I am not surprised that somebody, perhaps put practice before learning the mechanical end of the instrument.

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 23 May 2015 4:11 pm

I would have answered him except I have never owned a push/pull so my answers would be a guess. Rather leave that to one of you P/P guys.

DG Whitley · Post by **DG Whitley** » 23 May 2015 4:17 pm

Well, since my comments didn't help answer the question, I respectfully deleted them.

James Quillian · Post by **James Quillian** » 23 May 2015 4:21 pm

I just did a little research. There is no way the push pull system can be explained well without some detailed diagrams or without having access to this type of guitar.

Chances are that Jason has an all pull system, since those are the ones being currently made.

It doesn't look like a good use of time to study the mechanics of a machine one will probably never use. It should be good enough to know push/pull is an earlier technology, that a lot of players still prefer.

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 23 May 2015 4:53 pm

I've never owned (or even seen, up close, live) a push-pull guitar. I've owned six or seven all-pull guitars, though. It would seem that the easiest way to identify a push-pull guitar is to note that changes with one are activated by a pull rod moving away from the changer for raises (same as for an all-pull guitar) and TOWARDS the changer for lowers unlike the all-pull guitar which still moves the changer by moving the lowering rod away from the changer. Also, the push-pull guitar would have the change rods both ABOVE and below the cross shafts whilst the all-pull guitars would have all rods lower than the cross shaft. Also, note that push-pull guitars don't have multiple tuning nuts at the changer like all-pull guitars do. All that said, I hope, first, that I've got this right myself, and second, that it makes sense to someone reading my gibberish. lol.

Jason Bergeron · Post by **Jason Bergeron** » 23 May 2015 5:15 pm

Thanks for the input, guys! Maybe I can find a video showing these at work to better understand them, since diagrams aren't my thing....

I think I have a basic understanding though. Perhaps they work like when you tune any stringed instrument (that I know of). Instead of tightening the string with the tuner, the pedal tightens the string? If I'm close, I would assume it is the opposite for a push mechanism?

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