GFI Student Model Tuning Problems

Ben Morine · Post by **Ben Morine** » 17 May 2015 7:27 pm

Hi there folks,

I am a newbie to the Pedal Steel. I have played 6 string for 20 years and I am finding the transition pretty good.

The problem is I bought a GFI Student Model New through a music shop in Sydney, whilst I thought this guitar is great, I am having trouble with the tuning.

I have followed the instructions set by GFI but when using LKR with the A pedal to play major chords, it doesn't get there, sounds like rubbish, not too mention that after a short time playing the whole thing goes out of tune. It makes it difficult when trying to play with a band having to keep tuning all of the time.

Anyways I wish I was able to replace the changer with a professional changer however with this model of guitar this is not an option.

Has anyone had issues with these guitars?

Will have to save the big bucks to buy a new machine from the US!

Thanks

Ben

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 May 2015 8:05 pm

Are you tuning to a normal tuner, or a "sweetened" tuning?
If you use a sweetened tuning, or if you tune by ear, the C# chord will be janky. The G# is flat, and the C# even flatter.
Try using a normal tuner, set to ET, and tune the E# lever while you hold the A pedal down.

Ben Morine · Post by **Ben Morine** » 17 May 2015 8:08 pm

Hi Lane,

Thanks for your reply, I am using a normal chromatic tuner using the Jeff Newman method.

Thanks for the information I will give it a go.

Cheers

Ben

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 May 2015 8:11 pm

Try tuning everything to 0 with the exceptions of
G#, E# (since it's the third of a C# chord, it's not really F), D# and C#. Tune those about 6 cents flat.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 17 May 2015 9:36 pm

Does your GFI have a plain 6th string or a wound 6th?

I think your experiencing 'cabinet drop', a problem that can be made 'less of a problem' by using a wound 6th string and tuning with the pedals down (discussed elsewhere on this forum)

Ben Morine · Post by **Ben Morine** » 17 May 2015 9:41 pm

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your reply.

The 6th string is plain. I will give the wound string a try.

Thanks

Ben Morine

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 17 May 2015 10:09 pm

Ben Morine wrote:The 6th string is plain. I will give the wound string a try.

Before you do that, can you describe what problems you had "using LKR with the A pedal"? What strings does LKR pull? Up or down? Do you have the same trouble without the A pedal? Do you know if it is a pull-release type of system?

John Botofte · Post by **John Botofte** » 18 May 2015 1:11 am

Hi Ben,
I have the same guitar as you - though not the same problem. I tune to the Peterson sweetened SE9 and SP9 tunings with the Peterson iphone app via the special mic cable. Before that I tuned to the standard tuning. And always following GFI's tuning instructions for the SM. Never had any problem with the f-lever or A-pedal in either tunings, maybe because I always tune to D# first (tuning knob), then E (red peg) and then F (peg) as described by GFI. After the E-strings I tune all the other strings. Fortunately the GFI SM doesn't go out of tune very fast. Maybe as it is cooler in North Europe than in Sydney?
I am very impressed with my GFI student model and so are other pedal steel players who have tried it.
Good luck
John

James Holland · Post by **James Holland** » 18 May 2015 1:12 am

Two suggestions:

Change your strings and make sure you get recent strings - not some strings that have been on the shelf for 10 years.

2nd, find a thread on recommended *pedal steel guitar* tempered tuning, as suggested above, for both the open tuning, and also for the shifts. I was trying to do this by ear, and chasing perfect fifths and thirds around and around, and finally just resorted to a recommended tempering from a forum thread.

These two things saved me from incorrectly diagnosing my guitar as faulty.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 18 May 2015 2:41 am

I have a GFI SM-10 without the RKL and I use the Emmons Tempered Tuning.

http://www.buddyemmons.com/ttchart.htm

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 18 May 2015 2:43 am

Also, the factory specifies string 6 as a plain, not a wound. Below is a screen capture from their website.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 18 May 2015 3:41 am

If changes keep going out of tune, one of the four following things must be happening:
1) you could have worn strings. As strings age, funny things happen to their elasticity. The need to tune my changes is my first sign I've let a set of strings live too long.
2) if you bought it used, the nylon nuts could be worn out and losing their grip on the rods. This would give a delightfully random aspect to pedal and lever operations.
3) you could have "cabinet drop", where the cabinet slightly deforms under pedal operation.
4) you could have something happening with pedal and/or lever stops.

The pull-release changer may be primitive (it's the technology from the late 50s), but once set, it's solid.
1) if the strings are less than a month or two old, this ain't yer issue.
2) To diagnose cabinet drop:
tune the open strings;
tune the pedals;
strike strings not affected by a pedal (such as testing string 6 while striking the A pedal);
apply the pedal;
observe the extent of the effect the change has on unaltered strings.
There are two MAIN causes of cabinet drop:
1) pressing the pedals beyond their stops. Your ankles have some pretty stout muscles behind them: if you press beyond the stop, you're trying to pull the guitar out of square. It takes time to learn how far to press the pedals to hit the stops but no farther.
2) The actual cabinet is flexing because the screws that hold her together aren't as tight as they should be. If your guitar is older, snug them down.
If your guitar is old, it might also benefit from A DROP of light oil between each finger.
There's much speculation as to what's going on, but only you (or possibly a nearby steel player with time and helpful spirit) can really provide information as to what REALLY is happening. And, unfortunately, you're new at this and short on the knowledge of what to look for.
We'll try to help.

Edward Rhea · Post by **Edward Rhea** » 18 May 2015 4:05 am

Does the GFI SM10 have a roller nut? If so, while you're changing strings, one might suggest a drop of oil/lubricant an turn them by hand making sure they are free to move. Sticking rollers can play havoc on tuning, as well.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 18 May 2015 6:44 am

I would change the strings, and make sure that you have enough winds on the tuners. The plain strings, especially 3 and 4, need more winds. On those try to have at least 6-8 winds. The wound strings should have about 3. Allow some time for the strings to settle in, re-tune as needed until they do.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 18 May 2015 7:33 am

The GFI SM-10 does have a roller nut. I recommend the same, but it only takes a drop.

Also, something to think about, if your guitar is sitting near a HVAC vent, that will make it go wild...

James Holland · Post by **James Holland** » 18 May 2015 12:39 pm

Scott Duckworth wrote:I have a GFI SM-10 without the RKL and I use the Emmons Tempered Tuning.

http://www.buddyemmons.com/ttchart.htm

Thats the one im using - but i use a little less on the F#'s than recommended.

And, strings may go bad sooner than a month if you play a lot or have acidic perspiration. It really shows up above the 12th fret When they expire.

James Holland · Post by **James Holland** » 18 May 2015 12:39 pm

double post deleted - jbh

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 May 2015 2:15 pm

ben, i see you are a new forum member. most likely, there is nothing wrong with your steel guitar. it is probably just getting familiar with how the whole thing works. it can be maddening, but the longer you persevere the better it all gets.

Jeff Scott Brown · Post by **Jeff Scott Brown** » 18 May 2015 5:08 pm

I had a GFI Student Model for a few weeks when I first got started and I also had a hard time with tuning. I didn't know if what I was experiencing was expected and reasonable or not. See http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=. I replaced that with a GFI Ultra and the difference was significant. The Ultra has significantly less cabinet drop and stays in tune much better than my Student Model did. Those are the only 2 pedal steels I have ever played so I can't speak to any others. I have had no regrets about replacing the SM with the Ultra. The Ultra is a delight to play.

I hope you are enjoying your new pursuit. For many of those who get the bug, I think this thing can provide a lifetime of pleasure and challenge.

Ben Morine · Post by **Ben Morine** » 19 May 2015 4:12 pm

Wow thanks everyone for the feedback and ideas.

I gave the incorrect information in my first post it was actually the LKL with the A pedal that was giving me the trouble.

Still trying to get my head around tuning it properly.

More of an inexperienced operator problem then a mechanical problem.

Thanks again all for the replies.

Ben Morine

Jim Priebe · Post by **Jim Priebe** » 19 May 2015 5:52 pm

Ben - I sent you an email mate. There's plenty of help right here in Queensland for you.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 20 May 2015 2:51 am

Ben, I have a problem rocking my left foot to the right, and had to readjust my knees to get the B / LKR combination. Something you might look in to.

Ben Morine · Post by **Ben Morine** » 25 May 2015 2:42 pm

Many thanks to all that replied to my post.

I have now solved the problem. I was using the Jeff Newman system, with a Korg Chromatic tuner and it just did not sound right according to my ears.

Many thanks to Jim Priebe for sending me the tempered settings for the GFI guitars. It worked fantastically! I am now setup with Cleartune on my iPhone with the tempered settings. Now it is taking me less time to tune it and it sounds great!!!!

Thanks Guys you are all gentlemen!

Ben Morine

Bob Moore · Post by **Bob Moore** » 26 May 2015 6:47 pm

I just go a GFI student model and my problem is not with tuning but the pressure needed to use either LKL or LKR. I got because of being lite. Any suggestions? Thx Bob Moore

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