Why do ZBs sound better than most?

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 23 Jun 2004 6:14 pm

I was just wondering why some people, myself included for the record, feel that ZB pedal steels just sound better than most other steel guitars. I'd love to hear other people's comments on this topic, especially people who might give me a reason to not buy the next ZB I am thinking about buying.
Duncan

Gene H. Brown · Post by **Gene H. Brown** » 23 Jun 2004 8:09 pm

I didn't know they did!
TeeHee

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 23 Jun 2004 8:59 pm

The best sounding steel to a given person; is the sound of a particular Steel, that immulates the sound they hear in their head and heart.
That's why there are so many different steels old and new; so to satisfy any and every individual looking for that immulation.
I'm glad you found yours; makes life so much easier eh?
Ricky

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 Jun 2004 10:28 pm

I *love* the sound of ZB guitars. A ZB was the first guitar I owned, and I am sure that that instrument influenced my ear. My next guitar was a BMI, and I spend most of my time with that guitar trying unsuccessfully to get that ZB sound back. My next two guitars were phenominal Emmons d10s (including a mahogany metal neck with maple laminate). My pedal steels are all Franklins now (for the last 25 years) but occassionally I get the urge to own a ZB. Maybe I can get Paul to install a Franklin mechanism in a great old d11......

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Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 24 Jun 2004 3:54 am

I have an Emmons Legrande ll, coupled with a 65 Fender Twin with JBL speakers; if I ever hear anything that I think sounds better then I might just be interested.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 24 Jun 2004 5:41 am

I'm with Ricky; it's whatever guitar gets closest to the sound in your head/heart. and for different folks it's different guitars-it's not a matter of "better", Duncan.

yet I agree- for me it's a ZB. The first steel guitar sound I ever consciously heard was a ZB, and forevermore that is the sound in my head and heart. My first pro model axe was a ZB, and that sealed the deal.

I love the many variations of sound that diferent makes of guitar create, and some "speak" to me more than others- for instance my Zum is nothing like a ZB, yet I love the sound I can get from it. I would love to own a good Sho~Bud as well.

But to me there is absolutely nothing that "speaks" to me like a ZB... it can be as simple as an A pedal bend, or as fancy as "Pedal Patter"...

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 24 Jun 2004 6:12 am

Sound is in the "ears" of the beholder.

The sound that I "hear" is the sound Buddy Emmons gets, regardless of the brand of guitar he plays.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 24 Jun 2004 6:59 am

Duncan, one should ask themselves, "for whom am I playing"? If you are playing for your own enjoyment, choose what sounds good to you. That could very well be a ZB.

If you are playing for other steel guitar players, I would bet money that would be an Emmons P/P.

Recording, it could be any of a number of guitars.

But, if you are playing to a general audience, nothing yet can replace the cutting sound of an old Fender. This is what will make an unsuspecting audience pay attention. I've seen it happen too many times.

Rick

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 24 Jun 2004 7:18 am

I'd always heard that part of the ZB tone was due to Zane using thicker wood in the body. Don't know if that's true as I've never owned a ZB. Does anyone know what the thickness of a ZB is compaired to Sho-Bud, Emmons, etc????
JE:-)>

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Emmons D10 8/4 P/P -75'
Fessenden SD-10 3/5
MSA SD-12 4/4 - 76'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
Bandit 112

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Jun 2004 7:58 am

Why do ZB's sound better than most? Well first of all I'd have to agree with you that they do sound better than most.

I think it has a lot to do with the changer design. For an all-pull, the ZB is very different from most all other all-pull designs. The ZB (and Kline) have a changer that keeps the changer fingers in hard contact with the endplate. Even when raised or lowered, there's still a solid connection to the enplate. Sort of like a push/pull where the fingers have a very solid connection to the body or endplate. Most all-pulls have the fingers with a less solid connection to the body or endplate. I think this has a lot to do with certain overtones being either reinforced or absorbed thus effecting the overall voice of the guitar. The ZB has this very powerful bell-like response after you pick a string. It's real unique.

I agree that tone is in the picking hand and it's really mostly all about how you physically get the string vibrating by picking it. That's where you have the most control over what the string will sound like. BUT, once the string has been picked, lots of things happen as the note rings out. Just like a banjo has a loud plink on the attack and dies and darkens real quick, and on a Les Paul the note will hold it's character and amplitude much longer. A steel has subtler variations of the same principle. When a note is ringing out, the guitar will absorb certain overtones and you're left with what I think is the "tone" of the guitar, not the picker. Wood, changer design, weight, density, string type, etc. can all effect the harmonic makeup of the ringing note. This principle is at work in any stringed instrument. A Les Paul doesn't sound like an SG. A Strat doesn't sound like a Tele. Even if you pick them all the same. There are acoustical physics at work. Brass bridges sound different from chrome plated zinc. Maple topped guitars sound different from solid mahogany. The variables are infinite.

The ZB and the Push/Pull Emmons are real special to my ear. Since I'm not much of a player, I pay extra attention to the sound of the instrument because I can use all the help I can get. For some reason these two guitars have, to my ear, the most beautiful and powerful and long cry when compared to a typical all-pull steel. I find them easier to be expressive with, easier to coax a wider variety of voices out of.

My 2-cents,

Brad Sarno

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 24 Jun 2004 9:06 am

ZB Custom is one of the all time classic sounds. They record beautifully. After playing both Sho-Bud and Emmons P/P I have settled on the ZB. I don't think that I will ever play another brand guitar again. The ZB does it for me. Especially after Jerry Fessenden put adjustable polished knee levers on it and Greg Jones (The Master) adjusted out my guitar to play smooth as silk. My ZB sounds incredible through the Webb and looks great to boot. What a great guitar.

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 24 Jun 2004 3:02 pm

To all those who I may have offended with my observation I apologize, but remember...I said "better than most", not ALL. And yes Ricky it does make life so much easier, but it doesn't totally quiet the voice in your head that tells you to buy "just one more". I think you have to take pills for that. Duncan

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 24 Jun 2004 3:11 pm

Maybe you were young, drunk, and unmarried the last time you heard a ZB.

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 24 Jun 2004 3:23 pm

Earnest, I have been all of the above at various times in my life, but my mother, several judges and various wives have always told me that it was no excuse for my behavior. I do believe that ZBs sound better sober, though.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 24 Jun 2004 3:26 pm

young, drunk, and unmarried

Well, I got two out of three going for me

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 24 Jun 2004 5:55 pm

Isn't it a fact, though, that people are divided into two camps? There are those who would really like to play a ZB... and those few who can actually lift one.

Phillip Morgan · Post by **Phillip Morgan** » 24 Jun 2004 9:22 pm

It's all about how and what Zane made them from and his design.He was way a head back then.Stainless and wood are the keys as far as material.The design is what brings it together.Have fun figuring out the rest dealing with your hands.Everybody is different.Good Luck Phillip

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 25 Jun 2004 7:52 am

Many folks told me that the Rusler that I had was very similar in looks and in tone to a ZB ....I've never owned a ZB, but I sure do miss that Rusler.... I had a set of Truetones on it, and it was truely a hard tone to beat !!....In a word it was "SWEET"
If in fact the ZB sounds like my Rusler did, maybe it's time I got one ( I'm not moving it once it's planted

... )

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 25 Jun 2004 5:27 pm

Yea, but only black ZB's

Emmons SD-10 3&4, Dekley S-10 (now 3 & 4), NV400[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 25 June 2004 at 06:27 PM.]

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 25 Jun 2004 6:12 pm

I always thought that ZB guitars sounded great largely due to the powerful triple coil pickups-the three position coil tap takes the sound from that of a whiney Sho-Bud to the fat ZB tone and somewhere in between-Love the sound of 'em

They look mighty pretty

but I think the mechanics of the ZB rank amongst the absolute worst ever!

Now before I get flamed about that last part-I realize that if I never owned one I would have no right to say that-but fact is among the several dozens of PSG's that I have owned-three of them were ZB

Bob Simmons · Post by **Bob Simmons** » 25 Jun 2004 6:44 pm

the wood is same as old Bud-3/4",solid end plates,and pickups is where this sound came from & undercarriage bracing creating great weight'

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 25 Jun 2004 7:44 pm

Paul,

Nobody is gonna flame ya!!!! To look at a ZB undercarraige that is set-up correctly looks like a hornet's nest and can be a bear to work on!! But if it is dialed in right, the guitar will play smooth, quick, and easy. The balancing system gets the pulls to bottom out on the endplate at the same time, creating a nice positive stop. Once correctly set-up, you never have a pull that fails to bottom out. The drawback with a ZB is they are not for someone who likes to change their pedal set-up frequently. The bodies are also longer which add to the weight of the guitar with everything being 3/4 maple as Bob stated. Most all of the ZB's out there have either solid stainless steel changer fingers or changer caps on the later ones. This contributes to the sound also I think.

Greg

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 25 Jun 2004 8:12 pm

Greg-my opinion of the mechanics is just that-an opinion-and we all know the old cliche' about what opinions are like!

I realize that there are those as yourself who have a different viewpiont on the matter-I mean no offense and am glad that you (kindly) mean none towards me either

[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 25 June 2004 at 09:17 PM.]

Bob Simmons · Post by **Bob Simmons** » 26 Jun 2004 6:59 pm

speaking of stainless changer fingers- years ago while I was working at Sho Bud I owned one with 1/2" stainless fingers.....what a sound ! but...... pop strings every other set! ZB's weren't near that bad tho

Sidney Ralph Penton · Post by **Sidney Ralph Penton** » 27 Jun 2004 8:13 am

I can't say i know what a zb sounds like, i am very new to this (3 months)I would say that the guitar makes a difference but i would say that a lot of choice sound comes from the amp. They will make a cheap guitar sound kinda good. I got a carter starter with a vegas 400 and i think it sounds good. i know a guy that has a wilson with a nashville 400 and mine sounds i would say just about as good as his does. but again he has played longer than me and i feel that the player has a great deal to do with it. it is like a corvette it is fast if you know how to drive it. sid

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