I have a great IDEA! Anybody Done it yet?

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

I was just thinking about wanting another push pull Emmons, but I cannot afford 2 guitars and I would definitely need to keep an all pull handy.
Would it be possible to take an Emmons D10 PP and covert one of the necks to all pull? Having 2 E9th setups on one guitar. One being Push Pull , and the other being retrofitted with modern All pull mechanics.
Think the Push pull portion would still sound characteristically Good? Think there would be a tone difference between the two at all??
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Sounds like a nightmare of a project to me. Unless you are doing the work yourself it would be cheaper to buy another steel. Actually it most likely be cheaper to buy another steel even if you are doing the work yourself.
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Bob

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

That sounds like an interesting project but seems a little redundant to me. I imagine you'd set up both E9 necks identically. If it were me, I'd just buy an S-10 to supplement what I was missing.
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Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

I'm assuming separate pedals and knee levers for each neck?

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

There are no shortcuts around simply learning the mechanics of a push pull or a Mullen... or any other guitar. Find someone who knows and pay them to teach you. There is a book on this subject, skype training, and possibly a DVD iirc.

I am pretty sure Jack Strayhorn discussed the prospect of converting a P/p to an A/p very recently. I think he concluded that if you need to change the changer...you will no longer have the tone and vibe. IMO what you will have accomplished is desecrating a classic.

There are in between ideas. The same fellow that publishes a small book on properly setting up a P/p also has developed some different bell cranks and other parts to give the P/p some conveniences that all pulls have. I recall watching his demo on youtube. I think last name was Clem. Sorry...I should know these names by now.

As for your Mullen... at a steel show I attended there were s lot of Mullens used by show quality performers and the tones I heard were most consistently near the top. If you have complaints about the featherlike action... It can be adjusted...as per the constructive posts in your other thread. You have to learn the mechanics of that one too.

I summarize with the same statement as I started with. There are no shortcuts. FWIW. I have a P/p...sho bud fessenden and MSA and the MSA is by far the winner on pedal feel. You could buy two of those for the price.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Many years ago Tom Bradshaw once converted a p-p to an all pull. I think he used an MSA changer.

I don't know how well it worked or how it sounded.
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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Paul Franklin (Sr) converted a PP Emmons to an all pull for Buddy. From what he told me, along with the all pull Franklin changer, the underside of the steel was changed to Franklin mechanics. He did reuse the Emmons foot pedals and pedal pool rods.

Ben Elder · From: La Crescenta, California, USA

Sundance Kid: "You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at."
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Cartwright Thompson · Posted 8 Apr 2015 2:25 pm

Hey Jeff, What are you on, and where can I get some?!? Very Happy

Brett Lanier · From: Hermitage, TN

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

Sure anything's possible, Charlie.
Just some random thoughts...If the only thing Jeff isn't comfortable with now on his Mullen is the "feel" of the pedals, I'm thinking he's really not going to be comfortable with having his E9 pedals at position 4, 5, 6, etc.
I think you'd need to be at a builder level of mechanical competence to pull something like this off and even if it was perfect...it better be what you really want because you own it for life. Good luck selling it down the road - unless Brett's Pedal Steel Research Center wants to buy it Smile

If the goal is to have an all pull that sounds like a P/P, you've already got a P/P 6" away so why bother? You've also effectively now got an S-10 that weighs twice as much as a normal S-10.... and you've trashed a D-10 P/P. And very quickly you're probably going to prefer one neck/set up over the other and then one of them isn't going to get played much anyway. By the time you get done with parts, labor, setup etc you might as well keep the Mullen and pick up an S-10 P/P. Why reinvent the wheel? Lots of highly talented builders have got us to where we are today...it's worth paying for the expertise designed into their products. There must be a reason other instruments don't have redundant necks/setups...you don't see a lot of bass players or lead guitarists with identical double neck setups. If they're looking for a different sound/pickups etc they have two separate instruments.
And lastly, we have a hard enough time explaining to the general public what a pedal steel does and how it works. Might be a little awkward the first time someone comes up after a gig and says, "OK, so I think I understand what you were doing back there but what does THIS neck do?" Answer "the same thing" hmmm.
But...that's just my humble opinion.

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

But if he(Jeff)was playing in a band,and he broke his fifth string he could immediately go to his second neck without missing a beat. Thats with the same tuning. T.L.
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2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars,

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Tom Bradshaw · From: Walnut Creek, California, USA

As Mike Perlowin indicates, I did convert an Emmons push/pull to an all-pull. I actually converted three of them (one double-neck and two single-necks). I did install MSA changers (and running gear) in all three.

Once done, the guitars sounded just like they did (great!) prior to my altering the mechanics. That was when I came to the conclusion that the pickups in those push/pull guitars had more to do with their sound than the mechanics (but many players will challenge me over that point of view). But there is more to the story:

When a local player heard the sound of the double-neck (after my alteration)(and after he had just purchased a new all-pull Emmons), he prevailed upon me to let him take the pickups out of my D-10 and put them in his new D-10. I consented. Following that, he talked me out of those pickups, since he said his new Emmons now sound like my Emmons. Like a fool, I consented. Once his pickups were back in the altered-mechanics Emmons, the guitar sounded bland compared to the way it had sounded before my friend talked me out of those pickups.

I told Ron Lashley (owner of the Emmons Co.) about the incident. He immediately began offering (as a new option) those old pickups (wound to 1725K ohms) that I let my friend have!

...Tom

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

As Reece told me and many great players have told me since. The quest for tone begins in your right hand not at the store. Smile

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Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

I dont know why certain posters miss the part about this just being an idea, not something im looking to do.
Another thing...... none of the membershave ever heard me play. So telling me to focus on practicing rather than chasing a tone dream doesnt make much sense. I suppose the ext time i see some one post a question i should tell them to not worry about the answer to their question,.....just focus on practicing.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Tom Bradshaw, That is some seriously great info.

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

Well Jeff Garden had a good point. I never even thought about it,but with his floors, 4,5and6 that
far to the right he's never going to raise and lower his E's comfortably. If his E's are on the left.
Not good. T.L.
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2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars,

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jeff, I'm sorry that you feel that way. Yes, I'm probably that "certain poster" you're referring to - who's only trying to help you. Maybe you see me as just an old fart, or some big mouth that doesn't know dick about pedal steel. Well, if that's your opinion, then that's okay with me. As a matter of fact, you can ignore everything I say if it makes you feel better. It's no skin off my nose.

You see, I've known more than a few players who think that "tone is everything". And if tone's your your primary interest, then you and I likely have little in common. My "thing" is playing steel, and those guys with imagination and talent that can play their ass off, and I don't give a good crap about their "tone". I don't sell lessons, guitars, amps, gadgets, or tabs, or anything else. But, I'll be more than happy to help anyone who wants to learn my approach to pedal steel, and I won't charge them a friggin' dime.

Meanwhile, I wish you luck in all you do. Very Happy

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

No Don, I really do appreciate the help! I understand its very hard to interpret other posters replies as its in text format. I post topics for other peoples enjoyment as well as my own interests in certain subjects. I all too often get responses that have little to do with the questions I asked originally. I encourage all to reply , I just wish they would at least attempt to answer the question.
I have no real interest in building a hybrid d10. But it seemed like a neat idea that maybe someone has already done. I simply meant that Me looking into purchasing another PP while keeping my All pull made me think......"HMMMM I wonder if anyone ever built this?" That's all.
Thanks everyone.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I thought it was a good idea, the sort that recent posts say that more of are needed on the forum,
something out of the box. We want more crazy ideas!

Michael Schuppe · From: Kent, Washington, USA

I've got a BMI SD10 that I've had for about three years now. It may not be the best steel ever made, but it's what I've got, so I'll just keep practicing and working at it until I feel the need to move on to something else. Most likely I'll just hang on to it. Funny thing is, it's amazing how much better it sounds now than when I first started playing it! Smile

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