C6th - Getting a High Eb Note

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

A survey for C6th players.

How do you get the high Eb note?

I've seen a lot of copedents that have a "reverse P6" lever - it raises the middle E to F and lowers the the high E to Eb.

I also see that, if you have a D as the first string, it might be useful to raise that to Eb instead of lowering the E. If it's on a lever that raises the middle E, you would gain an Fmaj7 chord (and lose an F6 chord).

Are there other viable options? Adding a D raise to P7 or P8 maybe? What are your thoughts?

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 19 May 2004 at 12:20 PM.]

Billy Easton · From: Nashville, TN USA

Bobby...
I use the reverse P6. Works for me, and I use it a lot.

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Its on P8 in my case.
Bob

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Do you use it along with the other P8 changes? Looks like an A half diminished on the high strings, but the low strings are A7.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA






  4 5 6 7 8 9 LKL LKL LKV LKR RKL RKR





D          Eb


E            D*                 F   F


C  D     D              B   C#


A    Bb  B      Ab


G      F#           F


E                   D*          Eb  F


C  D       C#               C#


A    Bb


F      F#  E G


C      D   A

Note: * splits with the F's to give an Eb. If you study for a moment, you will notice several scenarios where the Eb works out great.

I stumbled on this by accident a number of years ago and I do not know how I ever got along with out it. That Eb on strings 2 and/or 6 is a major part of my playing C6.

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Buddy and several others raise their D-Eb on P8. I raise mine on a C6 vertical. On my loaded Dekley I had the reverse of P6 on another pedal.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Carl, you have too many pedals and too many knee levers.

Good ideas, though.

Keep 'em coming, folks.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I pull it up a half tone with my left little finger.

No Problemo.

EJL

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

On string 9, move the bar back a fret. To make strings 8 and 9 work right together, press pedals 6 and 7 and play back 2 frets.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

On pedal 7 along with lowering the G to F. My regular pedal 7 is on a lever.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

I have it on a knee lever. I believe Jernigan and a bunch of other guys had it there years ago. Look in the back of the Winston book.
Dave

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Maybe I wasn't clear. Here's what I meant to ask:

Do you raise the first string D to Eb? If so, on what pedal/knee?
Do you lower the second string E to Eb? If so, on what pedal/knee?
OR do you simply not have a high Eb?

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hi b0b,
On my Emmons P-P S12U, in B6th mode (E's>Eb's and D#>C#), I raise my C# to D on P6, which is half of the reverse P6 function.
I think of it as the Choo-Choo-Cha-Boogie change, giving you the I and IV on the same fret.
(Can anyone can get string 4 to go from D to F# on a push-pull?... ie. D-Eb-E-F-F#)

On my Sierra (also in B6th mode), I have the full P6-inverse (I call it P6i instead of P6-reverse) on P8.
Lowering Eb>D on string 4 and raising Eb>E on string 8.
One place I use the string 8 Eb>E is on the Buddy Emmons solo on Little Brown Jug.

The P6i pedal is nice on S12U because in E9th mode it gives me E>D on string 4, which is a nice E9th full tone motion.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

b0b,
FWIW, I don't have a D->Eb pull. I tried putting it on pedal 8 and on a knee lever that lowers my string 5, but the problem was that since it was using a pre-existing pedal or lever, when I wanted the Eb note, I would invoke other pulls that I didn't want. In the end, I use musical solutions to get the note. Moving to other frets and/or invoking different but interesting harmonies when I need the Eb note for a melody.

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

My experience is the same as Jeff's. I find the note in different places.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I'm keeping score. So far, with 10 respondents:

3 don't have a high Eb change (West, Lambert, Steiner)
2 raise D to Eb on P8 (Hoffnar, Dixon)
3 have a "P6 inversion" pedal or lever (Easton, Burak, Dixon with a split)
3 I didn't understand exactly (Sinkler, Ristrim, Mason)

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 20 May 2004 at 10:01 AM.]

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

b0b,
What conclusions are you looking to draw based on your survey?

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I'm just hoping to get a statistical feel for the popularity of the various options, Jeff.

I have a lever that raises middle E to F and raises high D to Eb. I recently realized that this was a pretty unusual way to get the Eb, and thought that maybe I should go to something a little more standard. Knowing what people are doing will help to inform that decision.

My original intent was to avoid hysteresis on the high E string. I figured that the "P6 inverse" lever would destabilize the high E on a keyed guitar. I'm about to go keyless (I've ordered a new Williams), so hysteresis is no longer a concern.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

bob grossman · From: Visalia CA USA

b0b:

How about a reply from a bedroom player?

My C6 from the top is GDECAGECAFDC.

I raise the two E's to F and the second str. to Eb on RKR. It makes an interesting change with "P7" as a V chord in the root position. Then add the Eb str. for a #5. Open, strings 3,4,5,6,7 are a G7. with P7.

FWIW

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

That's a good one, Bob!

    P7   RKR


G


D        +Eb


E        +F


C   +D


A   +B


G


E        +F


C


A


F


D


C

Thanks.

Franklin · Posted 20 May 2004 5:13 pm

b0b,

Put me down for raising the D to Eb.

Paul

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

b0b;

--L--V--R--4--5--6--7--8--9--L--R-


D-------C-------------------------


E-------Eb-------F----------------


C-D--------------------------B----


A-B--B--------------Bb------------


G-------------F#----------------G#


E-------F--------Eb--------F------


C----------C#----------C#---------


A----B--------------Bb------------


F-------------F#-------E----------


C-------------D--------A----------

And that's the way was/is!

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“Big John” Bechtel
Franklin PSG D–10 (9 & Cool

Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Custom
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click here

[This message was edited by b0b on 21 May 2004 at 10:22 AM.]

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

I have the standard C6 tuning but with a low A added on the bottom and a D on the first. So 12 string all together. The second string is still a G. I lower the D to C#, E to D#, and raise the middle E to F with a knee. Look at Paul Franklin's tuning. I just don't have the two bottom string changes on my knee lever. I'll try and post a chart soon.
Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Ristrim on 21 May 2004 at 04:38 AM.]

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

       LKL LKV LKR    4    5    6    7    8    9   RKL RKR 


1  D  _-C#________________________________________________


2  G  _________________________+G#________________________


3  E  Eb/D___________________________+F___________________


4  C  ____________________________________+D_______-B_____


5  A  _____+Bb________+B__________________+B______________


6  G  _________________________-F#______________________-F


7  E  _+F_______-D________+F________-Eb___________________


8  C  ____________________+C#__________________+C#________


9  A  _____+Bb________+B__+Bb_____________________________


10 F  ____________________-Eb__+F#_____________-E_________


11 C  _________________________+D______________-A_________


12 A  ____________________________________________________

trying again, thanks Doug

[This message was edited by Dave Ristrim on 21 May 2004 at 10:07 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dave Ristrim on 21 May 2004 at 10:08 AM.]

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

I raise on P8
Hook

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HookMoore.com

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