Opinions: pedal travel, and where to put the E lowers?

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Hi, gang. I'm fairly new at steel, and I'm in the middle of re-rodding a nice MCI D-10 I recently picked up from a generous forum member, that he had set up with an unusual copedent on the C6 neck. It occurred to me that I should set the pedal travel to where I want it before I set up the pull rods. Any opinions out there on how much pedal travel we like?

Also: the MCI has the E lowers Emmons style, on the LKR, and my other guitar (Sierra SD-10) has the E lowers Sho-bud style, on the RKL. Any thoughts on this issue? I'm afraid that to switch back and forth between the two styles on the two guitars will make my learning curve even crazier than it already is!

Thanks

Wayne
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

It's a matter of personal preference. Which way do you like?

My E string lowers are on my LKR. At one time I moved them to RKL, but put them back on the LKR after a while.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I like them on the left.
If you, like me, enjoy the ability to pull into and out of unisons, you will want E raises and lowers on the same knee. Not because they need to be together, but because BOTH the 2nd string lower and 6th string lower work together with the E lowers, and the 2nd string lower works well with the E raises. The only way to have all those working together is to have the E raises and lowers on the same knee, right or left is a matter of taste.
Have a look at this one. I apologize for not having my RKR in the shot, but hitting it moved the body of the guitar.
Why I don't combine the 2nd string drop with 4th: http://youtu.be/EdfmMfzvcI4
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Most guys (I'll asume) like the Es on the feft (Emmons setup)
I know I do. But whatever is most fluid for you is what matters.
_________________
Jb in Ohio
..................................
GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
..................................

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Yes, I'm thinking since one would never need to use them at the same time they should be on the same knee. And Lane you make a good point. Although that removes the possibility of using the remaining two knees simultaneously... not that I've ever needed to do it but that's the tradeoff. Darn it... means I gotta get under my Sierra with a chainsaw now.
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Paul Wade · From: mundelein,ill

i play lowering my Es on RKL when i started i playing
emmons LKR but got a guitar with knees lowering RKL
have had it for 28 years . go what fits you the best
just my 2 cents Smile

p.w

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Wayne, if you only need to use the other two staggered (in time), and don't need to pick another note until they're no longer needed together (the only way I've ever needed to do so), you hit the first lever, pick the strings, and move the other lever by hand.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Whoa... tricky! That's why I always wanted a gibbon's tail... think of the fun you could have! Aside from having to alter my pants. Seriously though, no one so far seems to have any compelling reasons to keep the lowers on different knees.
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have the "Emmons" setup with the E raises and lowers on the Left knee (LKL Raises E's, LKR Lowers E's).

But the old Sho-Bud setup with the E lowers on the Right Knee Left is still used by a lot of people including Paul Franklin.

You can look at my Copedent
HERE

What I have on my E9th, except for the 7th string raise and the Left Knee Vertical, is the stock setup for GFI. It was the stock setup for Carter Guitars including the Left Knee Vertical.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i've always used e-eb on rkl...e-f on lkr.
first two pedals day.
e-f# on rkr.
it's the smart way to do it.

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Thank for the opinions, gents.
I don't have the experience to really have a preference, yet.
Mike P, I'm curious, why did you switch back?
Chris I, I've never played a guitar set up Day style - why do you think that's the smart way to do it?
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Dan Robinson · From: Colorado, USA

Right knee, left knee, makes it tough to use another cat's horn if you play the pedal steel guitar. Laughing

Emmons setup, E-lower on LKR might be more prevalent. Universals tend to use LKR, and I learned with LKL. If I was inclined to experiment then I seem to have missed the opportunity. It don't take long before it's an extension of your creative mind.

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Yeah, good point Dan
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

I lower my E's with the RKR, and raise them with the LKR. My first steel had the lower on the RKR and I got used to it, so I left it there. I didn't raise the E's to F until I bought my first modern steel, a Williams, around '89 or 90. The LKR seemed logical to me, so that's the way it is.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

There are advantages and disadvantages to both having the E raises and lowers on the same knee, and on different knees.

If the raises and lowers are on different knees, it makes it possible to make a very smooth transition from one to the other. That transition is much harder if they are on the same knee. It's very difficult to avoid a little bump on the note in between the raise and lower.

Nevertheless, there are some real advantages to having the changes on the same knee. Perhaps the biggest one is the 5th string lower which works with both the E strings raise and lower.

In my case, since I play a U-12, and lower the 8th string down to D on my RKR, when I had the lower to Eb on my RKL, I had to release it, thus bringing the string back up to E, before I could lower it to D.

Like everything else about the steel, it's all a matter of personal preference, rather than a definitive right or wrong way to set the levers up.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I've yet to find a standardized regulation guide for steel.
It occurs to me you can rough in the pedal height, but be prepared to re-adjust the travel after completing raises and lowers.

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Thanks, Mike. Good point, I do use that transition. Hmmm...
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Wayne, I also occasionally use the transition between the E string raises and lowers, and I find that I can avoid or at least minimize the bump if I raise my leg up and hit the knee levers as close to the undercarriage as possible.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

For me, the E string changes are on the left knee. Some thing that puzzled me in your first post:

Wayne Simpson · From: Marlborough, Massachusetts, USA

Well, it appears I have at least some control over pedal travel - correct me if I'm wrong but if I want to shorten travel on a pedal I can move the rod ends to a higher (viewed from an upside down guitar) bell crank slot, farther from the cross rod, and /or a lower changer finger hole, and get the same string tension change, admittedly with more pressure on the pedal... does this makesense?
_________________
MCI D-10
Sierra Artist SD-10
Peavey Nashville 112
Ampeg B15 Fliptop
TC Flashback Delay
Bunch of other amps
Marlborough, MA
wawawayne@comcast.net

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Bingo. But you WILL notice them getting stiffer
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

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