half diminished chords on E9th 3, 3

Matt Williams · Post by **Matt Williams** » 28 Apr 2004 10:49 am

Im stumped on finding a good way to voice minor 7th flat 5 chords on E9th 3/3 (I dont have my 4th knee installed yet)

Whatcha got gentlemen?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Apr 2004 11:39 am

1/2 A + B
strings 7,6,5,4
open it's Ami7b5
scale tones = 1,3b,5b,7b
That's the first one that comes to mind

2nd string lowered to D
strings 6,5,2,1
open it's G#mi7b5
scale tones = 1,3b,5b,7b

Other voicings are available as well.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 29 April 2004 at 08:00 PM.]

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 28 Apr 2004 11:49 am

Assuming that one of the K's is the E -> F change, in the open tuning, 4th and 8th strings, F, 3rd and 6th strings Ab (G#), and 5th and 10th strings are Cb (B), there you have it. Also, since the -7, b5 is 3/4 of a diminished chord, it will repeat every minor 3rd so: you also have it with the 9th string D, 8th string F and 6th string Ab (G#). Add the 5th string Cb (B), and it's a full dim 7 chord.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 28 Apr 2004 12:03 pm

Matt...here's one way.

Substitute an E9 minus the root(open strings 9,7,6,&5...) for a G#m7b5. The root is now string 6.

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 28 Apr 2004 1:03 pm

Seems like a half-diminished chord should really be called a "3/4 diminished"!

Matt Williams · Post by **Matt Williams** » 28 Apr 2004 2:27 pm

Good tips fellas. Keep them coming Im on it. Yes it is 3/4's diminished when you look at it that way Greg. If you can reshape western practice, maybe one day we'll all be calling it a Vincent minor 7th (shorter than half diminished to say) heh...

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 28 Apr 2004 5:29 pm

Easy way to think of a minor7b5 chord is just a minor chord with a different bass note. Example-an Amin7b5 is just a Cminor triad over an A bass. If your on the gig, let the bass player play the A and you can just play a Cminor.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 29 Apr 2004 5:54 pm

Bill: Since A is the 6th of C, does that mean that Am7b5 and Cm6 are the same chord?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 29 Apr 2004 6:02 pm

If you have the lever that lowers your G# to G, and the one that lowers your 9th string, you can do this: <pre>
F# ______
D# ______
G# ______
E ______
B __8___ (G)
G# __8b__ (Eb)
F# ______
E __8___ (C)
D __8b__ (A)
B ______ </pre>Am7b5

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 29 April 2004 at 07:02 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 29 Apr 2004 6:17 pm

more Am7b5 positions: <pre>F# ______
D# ______
G# ______
E ______
B __7#__ (G)
G# __7___ (Eb)
F# ______
E __7#__ (C)
D __7___ (A)
B ______

F# ______
D# __4___ (G)
G# ______
E ______
B __4___ (Eb)
G# __4___ (C)
F# ______
E __4#__ (A)
D ______
B ______

F# __1___ (G)
D# __1b__ (Eb)
G# ______
E ______
B __1___ (C)
G# __1___ (A)
F# ______
E ______
D ______
B ______ </pre>

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Apr 2004 7:01 pm

Bobby. As long as there is a big ole A in the bass, then it will not have the sound of the C-6 chord.

I guess you could call it a C-6/A if you had a sonic need to have the A doubled up an octave in the chord. The way the chord is voiced is the determining factor. What you are sort of doing is taking the bass of the min.7b5 and moving it up in the chord and then calling it another chord.
What I was getting at in my post was trying to help the guy out who couldn't find -7b5 chords but would have no trouble finding minor chords. As long as he knows which minor triad is in the half dim. chord, he could play that without the bass note and still get the job done. If he is playing solo and needs the low bass note of the half dim. chord then the hunt is on!

Much easier on the C6 or 12 string E9 neck probably.

Looking at your voicings I don't see the voicing that is used most which is A,G,C,Eb. Not possible with E9 10 string???

[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 29 April 2004 at 08:04 PM.]

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 30 Apr 2004 7:10 am

"If you can reshape western practice, maybe one day we'll all be calling it a Vincent minor 7th (shorter than half diminished to say)"

Matt you are onto something here!!!

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 30 Apr 2004 7:52 am

I could not see anyone has mentioned Lowering E's to Eb together w A+B pedals. Strings 8b 7 6# 5## (open) = Ebm7b5.
We all know it is there but we might think of it more as a voicing that fits a B7 chord.

Bengt Erlandsen

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 30 Apr 2004 8:10 am

Bill H.
The A G C Eb voicing can be found here.
<pre>
F#----------6----
Eb---------------
G#----7-----6#---
E-----7#---------
B-----7#*---6##--
G#---------------
F#---------------
E-----------6b---
D-----7----------
B----------------
</pre>

* note: the voicing at 7th fret uses half Apedal

The voicing at 6th fret uses lowering E-Eb w A+B or B+C
( if your knee lever only lower 8th string to Eb the you can play strings 8b 5## 4## 3# using E-Eb and B+C on strings 8 5 4 3)

Additional nice to know.
The lowest E9(10string)voicing w those intervals Root b7 b3 b5 in that order is a Bm7b5 on open strings using B-pedal, E's to F and 2nd string lowered to D playing strings 10 6# 4# 2b.

Playing the same 10 6 4 2 strings w B+C and 2nd str. lowered to D = Bm7
Playing the same 10 6 4 2 strings w only B+C = B7

Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 30 April 2004 at 09:20 AM.]