G# lowered to G, fairly uncommon?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 29 Feb 2004 8:25 pm

Chris. Yes, but it hasm't been shipped yet awaiting packing and a final sheet. I do think I'll include a V on the E9 side just to be safe. Either lowering the Bs or the G#s.

All in all It's going to be a couple grand WELL spent considering I spent that much on a rear wheel disc brake setup for my panhead last year and haven't ridden it in a couple months.

Probably this week, but I'll have plenty of time to finalize changes.

EJL

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Mar 2004 2:42 am

Eric lower both B's and G's, it opens up a lot of stuff.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 18 Mar 2004 4:09 am

Having both G#'s to G on the LKV opens up all the nice combinations w other pedals/levers.

On strings 10 8 6 5 4 3
Apedal + E's to F (LKL) = Major triad ( 2 octaves)
Apedal only = minor triad ( 2 octaves )
A pedal + G#'s to G (LKV) = dim triad ( 2 octaves )

or use G#'s to G by itself for the minor voicing on strings 10 8 6 5 4 3.

Sometimes it might sound better playing strings 6 & 4 (no pedals/levers) slide 1fret down and add LKV instead of 2 frets down & add LKL or 3 frets down & add B+C.

Use G#'s-G together w 9string D-C# for a nice dom9 on strings 9 8 6 5.
Try this
10fret, lower 9 to C# and 6 to G, play strings 9 8 6 5.
Let ring and slide to 3rd fret while releasing both lowers, add A pedal at 3rd fret.
Release A pedal and lower both 9str D-C# & 6 G#-G.
Nice change from G9 G13 G7 to C9.

If you use the G#-G it will probably function best if the pivot point is to the right on the LKV since you want a smooth transition from Apedal + LKL to Apedal + LKV.

IF you prefer the B-Bb change it is better to have the pivot point to the left on LKV since it will be used together w A+B+LKR(E's-Eb)

If you have E's-Eb on RK then this does not matter, unless you have the lower of 2&9 on LKR. Then the pivot point should be to the left since both G#-G or B-Bb is used together w the lowering of strings 2 & 9

Bengt Erik Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 18 March 2004 at 04:10 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 18 Mar 2004 6:56 am

A further, more subtle thing about lowering of the G#'s to a G.

On my U-12 as I stated, I lower all 3 G#'s to G. I also, split RKL with the B pedal to give me a G on strings 6 and 10 .

BUT, they are NOT tuned to the same pitch as LKL. IE, on LKL where I lower all G#'s to G, I opt' for a pretty E minor chord. But on RKL with the split, I opt' for a better sounding A7th chord.

I know b0bby does not agree that these two notes are a different pitch, but I have always had the exact same problem on the C6 neck on D-10's when it comes to the 6th pedal.

IE, If I tune the Eb for a pretty (JI) C minor, the F7th chord does not sound right. And vice versa.

So having them both gives me the best of both worlds.

carl

A Better Way
[This message was edited by C Dixon on 18 March 2004 at 07:01 AM.]

Dan Galysh · Post by **Dan Galysh** » 18 Mar 2004 5:29 pm

Having the G# to G change on 3 and 6 can open up alot of doors into Jimmie Crawford's roll style and extended chords. Much of his banjo roll stuff is done with this change. I have had it on my guitars since he inroduced it to me 23 years ago. Very useful.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 18 Mar 2004 7:48 pm

Hey, Fred. I guess I am one of those dinasours. I followed Alvino Rey , E6 all the way. Had that G# to G way, way back so far, I can't remember??...al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Mar 2004 4:00 am

Since so much of chord structure is based on manipulating the thirds ratios in the octave,
it seems very logical for all passing chord issues to be able to have a minor or major third in both pedal up and down positions.

For me this was what was missing on E9 vs C6,
Now I have both the old country licks and a better way around more complex changes.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 March 2004 at 04:12 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 19 Mar 2004 7:15 am

David,

You are soooo correct. Of course we had it with B and C, but this caused us to have to move the bar two frets. While this is ok, it is better to be able just to lower the major third to a minor third with a knee lever.

carl

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Mar 2004 11:23 am

Carl, quite true about BC, but it really is a different sound and to my ears less useful in comparison.

I use BC, but not for the same things.
Also it tends to give unintended note slides on certain passing chords.
Try doing an AB V chord into a BC IIm into I open.
With the G lever it's smooth as silk.

When less levers was normal, BC was more neccesary, but now we have more options of minors and that is very positive.

Since there are 4 minor chords in any key, even if the song is only I IV V majors, these minors are there as passing chords for a steel player.

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 19 Mar 2004 6:29 pm

Holy smokes, this thread's still alive and kicking?

Yeah, I still have to get this change added... So, so cool...

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 16 Apr 2004 7:00 am

Well I have been trying to get the Sho-Bud's 3rd string to lower all the way to G for a LONG time.
The changer never liked it.
Could never make it go, no matter what I did and how many E-mails with Ricky Davis, who was great for advice.

I was pulling the 2nd to D detuning. a touch and doing a slight bar slant to get the two in tune.

Today I actualy built, installed and ultimately removed,
a "McGuivered" mid rod lever as a cam to get more travel.
even THAT didn't make it happy. And I REALLY want this change there.

But I said OK, it don't work... So I flip flopped it.
I now raise string 1 to G while the 2nd still goes to D but truer.

But that 3rd string G# was just too horrible to leave untouched, so I have now raised that to A.
It at least was not a brick wall to run into.

This was a quite suprising change.
I don't mind that high 11th a bit over the minors.
It also makes this lever work even better with the Jeff lever Bb's.

And suprisingly cool with the Franklin pedal.
Which tended to be by it's self most of the time.

And if that wasn't enough it is lovely with pedal A also.
This Crawford minor lever (CrM) is on RKL.
presently 1G, 2D, 3A, 6G and 9C# to D
I have cool licks from A with F
and A with RLK CrM

I real find a much more C6 kind of thing happening, without losing a bunch of country lick too.

Your milage may vary... my harmonic is is rather wide.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 16 April 2004 at 09:09 AM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 16 Apr 2004 9:37 am

To Go a little further harmonically,==

I had E6 as Alvino Rey did back in 1947 on my Gibson 8 string 6 pedal Electra-harp. Here is the way it was tuned then at that time.

top to bottom-
E_C#_B_G#_E_C#_B_G# that is all I had to work with.

Now the G# to G was one of the most important pedals. Not only did I lower the 4th string G# to G, I also Lowered my 7th string to A giving me and A9th, plus the Emi6.

I flat the 1st string for a Maj7th and use it in conjunction with the G lowered, gives me a nice aug 11th, one fret up from the tonic 7th.

Flatting the B's was another important pedal, and with the min G together gives the Diminished. I am going to stop right now before I get carried away.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 16 Apr 2004 12:22 pm

I"ve got it on my CARTER D-12
Grouchy

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 Apr 2004 12:27 pm

I have it on pedal 5. I don't use it a whole lot, but it does come in handy at times.

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