C6 advise

[Larry Allen]

C6 mechanics, I have a question. I'm reworking an older Excel Uni into a C6...Customer wants LKR to pull 5th string G down --F..026W...I can't get it to lower all the way. When I do it is Too Stiff and the throw is too long (Lever stop all the way)..Would a .026P pull better than the W?..The Lever also has 10 Raising C++D...Thanks, Larry

[Lane Gray]

I'd try a .024W first. The plain would move farther, but sound different.

[Larry Allen]

Thanks Lane..I'll try that. I'm not a C6 Pedal Guy so what would the difference be if I raised the 6st string E to F?...you wouldn't play 6 & 5 (E and lowered F) together? so, if I raised 6 (E) to F you wouldn't play 6 & 5 (raised F and G) together? Hope this doesn't rankle the C6 guys..>just a mechanical problem...the rest of the changes are clean and smooth on this guitar..Larry

[Lane Gray]

Raising 6 to F makes more sense. That turns (if you think about it) an F9, so there's now a whole lot of scale lines sitting right there.

[Larry Allen]

I'm just waiting to hear back from the owner...Thanks again...here's the lever ..Amazing winter in Alaska.45 degrees and rain...usually 20+ below!!..Larry

[steve takacs]

I went to a Herby Wallace seminar once and he explained that he put the change on string 5 (rather than string 6 E to F ) to drop G to F and raise string 10 C to D for chordal work using 2 fingers and a thumb together or just the thumb.

The chords were on several adjacent strings which made them easy to hit.
He also has this info in his book APPROACH TO THE C6 GUTAR HWP 201.

[Larry Allen]

Do you use it in your regular playing..or for certain phases or licks..inquiring minds want toknow!! Larry

[steve takacs]

Larry, I use it for big chords in which the strings used are next to one another. Usually it involves 4 to 5 strings played together.
Of course, one can get licks around those chords. I don't use the change for any specific phrases. I do use that change often for chord work since it was Herby showed it to a number of us way back when. Thanks, steve

[John Alexander]

Thanks Lane..I'll try that. I'm not a C6 Pedal Guy so what would the difference be if I raised the 6st string E to F?...you wouldn't play 6 & 5 (E and lowered F) together?

With the G lowered to F the open string notes are, from low to high, C F A C E F A C E G (or D). Strings 9-2 form two octaves of an F major 7 chord similar to what you get with traditional pedal 4, but a fourth higher. It also doubles as a D minor 9. If you have G on top, it makes it a F major 9 (or D minor 11). In all these chords you do want to be able to play the adjacent E and F notes together. Using different string combinations and grips you can get quite a few variations of these chords.

The minor 9 and 11 chords are especially useful if the copedent allows you to independently and simultaneously lower the 3rd string to B, making a G13, and you can get some other interesting chords if the 4th (and possibly 8th) string can also be lowered to Ab.

These changes are more or less standard on the Bb6 tuning of Maurice Anderson, which in some of its incarnations did not have the equivalent of traditional C6 pedal 4. With traditional pedal 4 and 5 used separately and together you can get much the same effect.

On my Excel Bb6, the corresponding string is the 7th string, F, which lowers to Eb, and it is a .026W. That might support Lane's idea of using a .024W for a string tuned a whole step higher, at least if the guitar you're working on is the same scale as the Superb.

[Larry Allen]

Thanks John...I'll try a .024W today...Larry

[Larry Allen]

Got it..redesigned the LKR and changed the leverage...close it up..Thanks, Larry

[Artur Konwinski]

Larry, try 026 plain.I use since years. Mayby it's not
perfect but works quite well.

[Robbie Daniels]

I've been playing a D12 steel since 1965 and have always pulled my lower E below G to F to maintain that 9th note if I needed it. Lowering the G seems to put a heavier drag on the pedal.

[Herb Steiner]

They are both useful and not redundant. The best choice is the one you'd use the most.

I lower 5 down to F with LKV.

[Robbie Daniels]

Herb you are absolutely correct. That is the beauty of pedal steel. All pulls are relevant to the individual.