That out-of-sequence string

Carl Yamamoto · Post by **Carl Yamamoto** » 2 Mar 2001 11:49 am

I notice on Bobby's tunings page that in his E13 tuning, he uses an F# string on top, above the G#, which means it is out of sequence, pitch-wise. I also recall seeing someone with a D string above the E on a C6 tuning - in imitation, I guess, of the pedal steelers who replace the high G with a D. I have two questions about this:

1) How do you use the string? Is it mainly for single-note playing, or are there chord voicings you can't get otherwise?

2) Why is it out of sequence? Why not put the F# between the E and the G#, or the D between the C and the E? Is there some advantage to putting it where it is?

Thanks to whoever can help.

Carl

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 2 Mar 2001 1:05 pm

Out of sequence strings have been around for a long time.To see of what use they might be,just look at their relation to the various chord forms available on whatever tuning it is.I think people put oddball strings on the outside to keep the core tuning pure-the way they originally learned it-especially C6.Otherwise,if you insert one or more strings into the middle of a tuning you've been playing for years,you've basically got another tuning to learn.This way they're like addendums to a familiar tuning-handy but out of the way.Also,they may be easier to get at when placed like that.I can't imagine trying to play fast chromatic chicken pickin with the F# and D# buried down in the middle of the E9 tuning where they "belong".BTW,I've seen all kinds of non-pedal tunings where there was a small string at the bottom or even in the middle of the tuning.Joaquin Murphey's C6Maj7/A7 and his even more obscure C#min9 come to mind.Jeremy Wakefield was telling me the other day about an old-timer he knew who had some bizarre tuning w/little strings at both ends and big strings in the middle and played the hell out of it. -MJ-

Matt Farrow · Post by **Matt Farrow** » 2 Mar 2001 8:17 pm

That configuration is known technically as a "re-entrant" tuning, meaning that the scale "re-enters" the tuning instead of "exiting." It is very common among early musical instruments, too - but usually the tuning reenters by an octave to compensate for old gut strings.

Some examples:

"Nashville Guitar"
E' a d g B E

5-string banjo
g D B G d

And the reason that the D# and F# strings are on the outside of the E9th pedal steel tuning is that the Sho-Bud that Buddy Emmons was playing at the time could only accommodate the extra strings at that location! So it wasn't a musical decision but rather a purely mechanical one. That said there are some really neat licks that you can do with the standard setup that become more difficult if you change it.

My pedal steel is tuned to an Eadd9:

E'' B' E' F#' G#' B E g# f#

I tried it with the high F# in order and it didn't work for me - I like having the "grips" on the high strings the way they were before. I did away with the high D# because it was too "pretty" sounding for my music. Even with a half-tone lower to D, it got in my way.

To each their own - sometimes it's easier to put the "extra" strings on the outside out of your way!

My 2¢
Matt Farrow

------------------
Matt Farrow
Marlen 9-string 6+2
Kustom K150

http://surf.to/pharaohamps

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 5 Mar 2001 1:30 pm

I've just spent a few days with the 8th string of a C6 tuning as a high b. (bACegac'e' - normally the 8th is a G)
I thought I wouldn't miss the low string too much - and I wouldn't in a 4 or 5 piece band, but I play steel mostly at home or in a duo or trio setting, so I'm not sure if I'll keep it. It's neat, though - an extra minor chord (E min) and a nice easy major seventh, plus lots of sub and bending possibilities. The best part is the harp-like (or banjo-like) pentatonic and scale runs you can get by throwing that high b string in between the g and the c. Very pretty.

The high string on the bottom makes more sense to me than a middle string on top. I'm used to having the "melody" string on top - and I play ukulele and 5-string banjo, both with re-entrant tunings, so the high thumb string isn't too weird. I have a friend who plays dobro and banjo, and right now he has a beautiful 7-string dobro with only 6 strings on it. He doesn't want to learn 6th tunings (I'd put an e in the middle of dobro G tuning), and when he had a low D on there he never used it, but I've got him intrigued by the idea of a high g string on the bottom, so he could play his banjo rolls.

In the unlikely event I ever get a 9-string, I'd probably go to the added b string, though a low C would also be very nice... there's no end to adding more strings, is there? You think those pedallers are going to stop at fourteen strings? In our lifetime, we're going to see the 18-inch tone bar, just wide enough for that 37-string neck... (I hear some 37-string player saying "If I had one more string, I could...) <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 05 March 2001 at 01:40 PM.]</p></FONT>

Matt Farrow · Post by **Matt Farrow** » 5 Mar 2001 3:00 pm

Hell, I just went back to 9 (from 10) on my pedal steel! I re-did the copedent (setup) so that I could get the lap steel licks that I like. I did away with the more complex chromatic intervals of regular E9th pedal steel tuning and added a low E. More useful for ME but not so good for contry licks or the Buddy Emmons-style string-skipping speed licks.

But if I were your friend with the 7-string Dobro, I would seriously consider the high G banjo thing. If he uses a Sharpie Marker for a bar (some guys uses a wooden dowel) he can get some pretty convincing banjo tones.

Matt Farrow

------------------
Matt Farrow
Marlen 9-string 6+2
Kustom K150

http://surf.to/pharaohamps

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 5 Mar 2001 9:43 pm

Carl- Yes that high F# over E tuning or D over C6 tuning is very useful for chord voicings. And as mentioned it is out of the way of the normal grips. I have played it both ways, in side and outside and have found over time that It worked better for me on the outside.....al

Carl Yamamoto · Post by **Carl Yamamoto** » 6 Mar 2001 11:48 am

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful replies. I put a D above the E on my C6 to see what it would be like, and it was too weird - I had no idea what to do with it. Any specific examples of licks or chord voicings that make good use of the string? Thanks, C.