I need some professional advice

[Karen Sarkisian]

Sounds like you just made the decision for yourself, Karen.

Now come on down to Texas and play some real music with us...

I need to come visit !

[Adam Moritz]

Yeah Karen i think you are just a good person which is why you feel the conflict to quit. You are probably a very dependable and loyal band-mate. That's not a quality found all that often. In my opinion it sounds pretty easy: if you quit you can find other opportunities that will quickly match popularity of this band.

Band chemistry is probably one of the most important factors in longevity in a band. Keep in mind it is much easier to quit bands which are not quality people. I would only play in that situation if i felt it benefited me in some way like: challenging my chops, getting experience playing with a genre or set of musicians, or creativity. If none apply then you are only doing it because you don't have another opportunity... and i think you do... or will.

I think you sound like you want the opportunity to expand your creative and improvisational chops. So go for that instead. Good Luck! hope to hear how it turns out.

[Karen Sarkisian]

thanks again everyone i will keep you posted. i am feeling a little paramoid now tho that one of the guys in the band may come upon this discussion. i have gotten all the input i need so i may have Bob delete it if possible. will send him a pm. thank you all so much for the support. the forum is the best !

[David Mason]

That "singer/songwriter" thing is about all I can stand, anymore. Drummers do amazing things for a band! Like, it takes twice as long to set up, you need twice the transportation, the drummer ALWAYS sets the level of the playing in the band - you automatically need earplugs... all the drum-baked accoutrements mean you need twice as much money (somehow....) Think of all the times in a band you've had to ask the drummer "Play louder! And hit more beats!"

I've noticed more and more that bands "feel" better with the more paraphernalia they attract - their own PA! Their own van! One of the most godawful people I ever tried to play with had his own tour bus.... but he didn't pay the band, the shows paid the band, and he couldn't get hired to fall off a log. The more exposure he got, the less he worked! What is the desired end point for this band?

[David Cubbedge]

Interesting post and it strikes a chord with me as I have just been let go from a modern country band. Like your situation, the lead singer is a guy who has a foot in the door at several Nashville studios and thinks he's the next great talent.

First, yes there is precious little steel in new country. I had to create my own parts on just about everything. And as Murphy says, just when I find that sweet part that fits, the band leader tells me to lay out.

Second, we used in-ear monitors with no amps. Most of the time the mix was horrible, despite having my own dedicated mix. I could eventually get it right in my ears, but many people told me I wasn't loud enough out front, which I had no control over. So I guess I was just PSG eye-candy.

Third, any band that wants me to pay to practice is going to have to find some other sucker. I refuse to also buy 'band-owned' equipment. Seen that movie and the ending isn't so good.

Fourth, bands with a 'star' on their way to the big time are a waste of time in my opinion because as you've already stated, if the guy 'makes it' his record company will pick his band for him. I will be ditched quicker than a hot potato!

So I am looking for something else and despite there being precious few opportunities for steel players, anything would be better than what I just went through. I don't miss that band, only the steady money.....

[Herb Steiner]

Been in so many of these situations it's deja vu all over again.

There is a famous scene in "Godfather II" when Hyman Roth (Lee Strasberg) tells Michael Corleone (Al Pacino) how the cow ate the cabbage in the mob world:

"This is the business we have chosen."

The sideman-dealing-with-hot-new-country diva situation is exactly this. We must deal with the fact that, for the most part, the public and the money-wielding powers that be see steel players as a disposable commodity, much like toilet paper. Just not as highly valued as toilet paper.

I'm having a cynical morning, apparently.

[Drew Howard]

Karen,

I feel for you, it's hard to give up bands/gigs. But, if you are in more than one band, and you don't need the income, you have the luxury of choosing which bands to play in.

Good luck,

Drew

[Karen Sarkisian]

yeah, I've decided to hang in there for a bit but to keep my options open.

[Barry Blackwood]

This band isn't into anything but itself. Run, Forrest, run...

[Charlie McDonald]

Well, apparently we really like you and your spirit, and each has been encouraging you to 'feel good about it.'
Good to remember that other things are happening, options opening, and I read somewhere you mentioning that peace is the thing....
And like Herb said 'Come on down!' They play cow jazz here!

[Lane Gray]

I ahve already tried to quit this band a few times, but they pull me back in as they need a steel player and around these parts they are hard to find. I really just need a reality check about this situation. ...

There's your reality check right there, Karen. They need you way more than you need them. Therefore you calmly state your terms for staying with them and they can either accept on terms that you're happy to continue with, or else you leave and look elsewhere. You have to be firm in your mind - no bluffing. Chances are, if they find a weaker steeler, they'll come back looking for you in the future if and when the gigs become higher-profile. And then you will again state your terms of engagement, right?

Yes Jim, however I have been burned in the past, shlepping around doing mediocre gigs and then been replaced when the gigs got better. I just need to state my terms, you are right about that. Good God the music business is rough. I did audition with a band last week that I really enjoyed. more of a singer songwriter type situation but I felt totally appreciated. appreciation goes a long way with me.

THIS is why I'm glad a semi truck pays my bills. I really wish I could be home on Friday nights so I could more readily find a band to play with, but as it is, I play for fun and only play with settings I find either fun or rewarding.
This is not a gig I'd stick with unless it was paying my billses. Life is frustrating enough without having my avocation compounding the frustration
Or: If the gig isn't fun, and it's not paying ALL the bills, I'd skip it.

[Karen Sarkisian]

Well, apparently we really like you and your spirit, and each has been encouraging you to 'feel good about it.'
Good to remember that other things are happening, options opening, and I read somewhere you mentioning that peace is the thing....
And like Herb said 'Come on down!' They play cow jazz here!

I need to come to Texas.

[Bud Angelotti]

Hey Karen -
You have my personal invite to come on down here to jersey sometime - we got country music down here too, problem is, i don't know what country ?

[Garry Vanderlinde]

Instead of out right "Quiting" a band, I prefer to be "Unavailable" for any length of time so I can weight my options and not burn any bridges as they say. Quiting is just so finite and leaves a bad feeling or bad karma.
Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

[b0b]

If your just playing parts off of records, you shouldn't need to attend their rehearsals. Tell them you'll learn your parts at home and show up for the paying gigs.

[Tom Gorr]

Instead of out right "Quiting" a band, I prefer to be "Unavailable" for any length of time so I can weight my options and not burn any bridges as they say. Quiting is just so finite and leaves a bad feeling or bad karma.
Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

I dont disagree with this...three of the four bandmates may feel exactly the same way but are acting political or not supporting you because they havent grown nads or still subscribe to the social hierachies of apes and or chickens...or still struggling to define their own space so much they dont even think about your role. At some point...over time you will see whos who in the zoo.

i had the honor of quitting a band...i'm proud as hell about it. It was for all the right reasons. Two more quit for thier own reasons within a year after. One of them...I play with in a trio that is much more meaningful...and another found a different band.

it all works out if you do whats right and everyone has different standards and different pain thresholds. I stayed 9 years. Thats a lot of time to cash in for nil. I suppose my equity is in the gear I bought from my share of the proceeds. Thankfully it wasnt my career..because unless you have a band agreement and a lot of top ten hits..theres more likely a cold sidewalk not a golden handshake at the end of a music career.

That said...new bands have to go through growing pains...and even the assimilation of one new member takes more time and energy than anyone would expect. Space has to be made for their unique personality traits as well as their musical influences and taste. Thats just part of the dynamics of band life. However...being able to read the play on investing in a long term sustainable situation is probably the most important skill. A complete amateur talent can sound like a million bucks after learning a song and playing it 300 times until its dropped from the setlist.

maybe im totally off..but having the experience of a long term situation that had the warning bells of a bad fit from the outset...i look more for character and potential and personality 9 times out of ten over blowhards with a little bit of talent. There are very few people who are as talented as they pretend to be...because practice hides a lot of flaws. Bottom line...its mostly all BS. Dont fall for it.

[Karen Sarkisian]

If your just playing parts off of records, you shouldn't need to attend their rehearsals. Tell them you'll learn your parts at home and show up for the paying gigs.

Agreed !

[Steve Spitz]

I'd have a hard time rehearsing when I didn't need the rehearsal. Dragging your gear , taking your time , sitting there while they figure out parts, that would get old.
And paying to do so? No thanks.

Like Bob suggests , at the very least, state you'll learn the parts on your own, but decline to be a " band member " and see how they respond.

Next , move on to your next decision. Is it worth your time, musically and financially ?

It sounds like they don't give the steel enough space to make the gig as fun as it should be. I've declined a recent band after two gigs, because they are poor ensemble players. The gig isn't any fun. I've tried to suggest they consider more traditional rotation of fills, directing traffic, etc....bottom line is they don't care, which makes the gig a drag. I now decline when called. It's got to be fun , or , if not, pay really well.

Think about the time you spend playing and rehearsing or learning the uninspiring material . If you spent this time playing /practicing what YOU like, wouldn't that pay off musically when the next , more interesting act comes along ?

Like Herb said, credits and debits.

[Walter Killam]

Hi Karen,

You have received a lot of information here.

I've been looking over the replies to this topic with interest, and then took a gander at your website, because what I haven't heard from you is what your career ambitions are (I may have missed this in a previous post).

It looks like your goal is to play steel for a living, and if that's where you are heading, then your BUSINESS is to play and be seen & heard as much as possible while making as much money as you can stash away.

FWIW - my mother was a Theory Professor at UNT, and I saw A LOT of road musicians come & go through the system. I never heard anyone say "I'd never hire that guy, he's working for a bunch of A-holes!". What the road leaders were looking for was someone with chops, flexibility, and a go along/get along attitude. Personally, I spent 4 years in the 90s working 40-60 hours/week of stage time in a local band in Dallas making more money than I could have on the road. (I bring this up to point out that I have some limited experience in these matters)

You should think about your business model;

-If you're looking for a road gig, then you need to stay active and in touch with your local road gurus.

-If your looking to be a hired gun, then you need to put together contracts and rate cards that include mileage, duties, and rehearsal rates.

-If you're looking for a slot in a local/regional band, then you need to be a band member and toe the line moving equipment, helping set up, dealing with sound checks & personalities.

No Matter what path or combination thereof you take, it's important not to burn any bridges, I've worked with plenty of no-talent jerks that made it big because they could work a crowd. Many of those gigs were the ones that opened doors to the places I wanted to be.

To my way of thinking, rehearsal isn't a bad thing as long as it doesn't cut into your profits significantly, I've worked with Bands that never rehearse, and some that rehearse too much. If my choice is rehearsing or watching "The Price is Right", I'm rehearsing with practicing coming in at a close second.

Ultimately, (and I believe you know this already), no one gets gigs by practicing at home, the choice gigs go to musicians that get out and work the scene.

Advice from the membership will take different views, but I think it's safe to say that we all hope you achieve the success you want, and would like to be part of the process!

best of luck!

Walter

[Karen Sarkisian]

thanks Walter. I do have a day job, but I would like to be taken seriously as a pro steel guitarist and if nothing else be able to cut back on my day job hours. I am currently working 40/week at my day job, playing in multiple projects, doing recording sessions, and teaching. The hours I am not working I am practicing. Its literally like working 2 jobs. My day job pays well but that is it, my passion is music and since picking up pedal steel i am more driven than ever to play. My ideal life would consist of teaching and playing in bands, but it's very difficult to make the transition without some sort of nest egg. I am having a hard time accepting that my day job is my career and steel guitar is just a hobby, so I am trying to think and make decisions as a pro would. I know a few pro's in my area, and they get most of the calls. They are also mostly multi-instrumentalists. I dont play fiddle, and I barely play banjo. Are they better steel players than me ? I dont know, but they are out there, and they are not accepting unpaid gigs and endless rehearsals. Maybe I am not at that level yet, but as one of the few pedal steel players in my area, I dont think I need to be putting up with crap situations or losing money just to play. I am somewhat in demand and I think I should make that work for me financially. As I said before I am not the greatest steel player on the planet, far from it, but I am a lifetime musician with lots of knowledge, know when and when not to play, learn very quickly, and adapt quite well. Last time I was in a local studio the engineer said to me "wow you are really good ! most of the steel players around here dont even play in tune" so I got that going for me

[Jerome Hawkes]

this has been a great thread - thanks to all

I think Walter hits on some great points here. i dont have any professional steel experience, but as many, i have gone through a similar situation and the professional musicians i know (that have WORK) will usually consider themselves contract employees - ie 'i will provide professional services on this date, this amount of time, for this $$ amount'. anything additional has to be spelled out - such as how many rehearsals, equipment, travel arrangements, etc... you have to protect yourself. thats really all it boils down to.
the danger is getting dragged into a startup 'band' - endless rehearsals for unknown gigs, results - almost always going to be a negative return on that. if this band is a 'professional' endeavor, then they, and you should know the deal-eo.

[Karen Sarkisian]

yes i definitely pass on the start-ups. been there done that, don't need to do it again

[Earnest Bovine]

Karen, how many head of live cattle ride on the band bus with you all?

[Karen Sarkisian]

Well I officially quit that band. On to new steel guitar adventures. Thanks you everyone for the feedback and advice

[Doug Beaumier]

Congrats, Karen!