P/P Emmons pedals

Jim Horan · Post by **Jim Horan** » 3 Jan 2015 9:23 am

The pedals on an Emmons S-10 PP are hard to press down. Any fix for this?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 3 Jan 2015 9:26 am

Are the fingers hard to move?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 3 Jan 2015 10:37 am

You can make the pedals easier to press, at the expense of more pedal travel, by using the bottom hole of the changer finger (yellow arrow) to hook the rods to.

Be aware, though, that if you do this, you will have to alter the pedal travel stops, and probably the collars on the 'C' pedal raise rod, as the law of unintended consequences could have been invented for the Emmons push-pull

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 Jan 2015 12:35 pm

it's just a matter of adjustment. undo all push and pull rods, set changer distances by hand , reconnect rods so they don't bind.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 3 Jan 2015 12:54 pm

I think Lane's point is to check that the fingers themselves are moving freely. If they are binding no amount of tinkering elsewhere will help. It might even cause damage.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 Jan 2015 2:03 pm

actually, you don't have to undo anything as long as no rod hampers the changer movement. once each changer finger in question can be moved by hand to the proper raise and lower, readjust rods appropriately making sure that any string that both raises and lowers has enough slack between both functions to not hamper the opposite.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 Jan 2015 2:10 pm

john lacey's 'wilderness guide' to the push pull is very handy, but i couldn't find the link lately.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 3 Jan 2015 3:07 pm

Although I've noticed that you haven't answered any of the questions, I'll go into a bit more detail.
1) (I apologize for asking this, but the name isn't ringing a bell) Is this your first guitar? If not, are you meaning that "help, this is stiffer than my other guitars"? If it IS your first, it's possible that there's something wrong, or it may be that you're not used to having to apply these forces.
2) When isolating stiff pulls, I always start at the fingers and work my way back.
A) put guitar in its case or on the bench. Leave everything hooked up (although it might be easier to drop all the strings a third to C9 or C#9 so you'll be fighting less tension, but it will have enough to return from a raise)
B) Start with the 10th string. If it raises, pull the finger towards the keyhead, it will offer resistance because you're adding a LOT of tension to a string already under a lot. When you let go, does it return with a snap? If they're sticking, try feeding a drop of oil on the axle between each finger.
C) If the raises are cool, do the same thing for every string that lowers. Push the fingers the other way, all the way to the stops. They should offer resistance, as the return springs are BEEFY. But you should be able to push them all the way and they should return.
D) (probably not your issue here, but check it) Hold the finger fully raised with one hand, and pull the rod of that string back and forth to make sure it's not bound up in the swivel. Some lube this, some dont: the fit is loose enough I'm not sure there's much erosion, but atmospheric gunge (especially from smoky bars) will necessitate cleaning occasionally.
E) also while holding the fingers raised (you'll be glad if you lowered the pitch), move the pedals. Since the other hand is taking the load, you should get nearly NO resistance. If it binds here, either the swivels can't twist in the bellcrank or the shaft can't twist in the bushings. Or (quite rare) the pedals can't rotate on the shaft. The answer is usually a drop of oil where it binds.

Abe Levy · Post by **Abe Levy** » 3 Jan 2015 4:00 pm

If you're in So Cal I can take a look at it for you... Pm me.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 3 Jan 2015 5:53 pm

Read this before jumping into your P/P

http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 Jan 2015 7:35 pm

that's the one,tony.
great information!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 3 Jan 2015 8:10 pm

Agreed.
But I'm pretty sure all I'd suggested can be done without loosening anything. But IT HAS been 24 years since I have seen my push-pull. Effing burglars

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 3 Jan 2015 9:54 pm

If you operate the changer by hand, be aware that when you simulate a lower, the rod that normally activates the lower can drop out, which can lead to a lot of confusion (been there, done that)

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 4 Jan 2015 7:40 am

Clem Schmitz still has this booklet & DVD set available:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pedal-Steel-Gui ... 4154facf14

Jim Horan · Post by **Jim Horan** » 4 Jan 2015 8:50 am

Thanks to all you guys for your input to my problem with the Emmons. LANE, This is not my first steel. I buy and sell a lot of them, not too many Emmons, a ton of Sho-buds. Will sell this one when I get it set up. Thanks, Jim

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 4 Jan 2015 9:26 am

Push-pull's pedals hard to press down = someone attempted to adjust it in the past and found out it wasn't as simple as it initially seemed. Then, he couldn't reverse what was done. Done it. And seen it too many times.

Jeremy Reeves · Post by **Jeremy Reeves** » 5 Aug 2020 8:54 am

richard burton wrote:If you operate the changer by hand, be aware that when you simulate a lower, the rod that normally activates the lower can drop out, which can lead to a lot of confusion (been there, done that)

it's true, it happened to me!

great pic of an issue I haven't seen discussed yet in terms I could understand lol

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 23 Mar 2023 4:05 pm

Is there a chart or guide for which hole the raise puller should be in for each change? My C pedal is very stiff and when i manually raise the 4th at the changer it's much better so I know it's string 4 and not 5. I have no shock spring on string 4 per Clem Schmidt and am on the highest raise hole.

edit: The 4th lower spring is NOT super tight, looser than most of the others but enough to return to open.

Here is a pic of my C pedal (Day setup so on the outside) There is extra linkage to pull string 4 for some reason that might be adding to the stiffness?

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 24 Mar 2023 4:37 am

Bob: This photo is not of a Day set-up. The first pedal on the end is raising strings 5 & 10 and pedal 3 is raising 4 & 5... Day set-up is reversed. Unless I'm missing something. I do see some strange looking things in there. Thanks, Tommy....P.S. Never mind, this one is just too confusing.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 24 Mar 2023 5:21 am

It looks like that extra cross shaft is used to move the 1st pedal/4th string pull-crank forward a bit so there's no interference with the F lever. The crank on 1st pedal/string four should be perfectly aligned with the F lever/string four so there is no binding at the end of the pedal stroke. I've enlarged the hole in string four swivel to a sleight oval to prevent binding

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 24 Mar 2023 5:29 am

The extra cross shaft is the F knee lever raising strings 4 & 8

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 24 Mar 2023 7:32 am

Jerry Jones wrote:It looks like that extra cross shaft is used to move the 1st pedal/4th string pull-crank forward a bit so there's no interference with the F lever. The crank on 1st pedal/string four should be perfectly aligned with the F lever/string four so there is no binding at the end of the pedal stroke. I've enlarged the hole in string four swivel to a sleight oval to prevent binding

I don't think it's binding, just those extra springs and linkage, etc?

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 24 Mar 2023 7:33 am

Tommy Auldridge wrote:Bob: This photo is not of a Day set-up. The first pedal on the end is raising strings 5 & 10 and pedal 3 is raising 4 & 5... Day set-up is reversed. Unless I'm missing something. I do see some strange looking things in there. Thanks, Tommy....P.S. Never mind, this one is just too confusing.

If you right click and save the pic, you can zoom in for more detail

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 24 Mar 2023 7:53 am

This is an old post, don’t know if you noticed. But yes, some very strange things under this guitar, lol.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 24 Mar 2023 3:52 pm

Henry Matthews wrote:This is an old post, don’t know if you noticed. But yes, some very strange things under this guitar, lol.

It's a Crawford Cluster if that clarifies anything

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P/P Emmons pedals

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