I really wanna get a pedal steel and i need advice!

Jacob Hacker · Post by **Jacob Hacker** » 22 Dec 2014 9:35 pm

Howdy! My name is Jake, I live in Tucson, AZ, and I am dying to get a pedal steel! Now, Iâ€™ve been playing guitar for about 18 years, and non-pedal steel now for about 4 years, with my main instrument being a Gibson Console Grande (probably a â€™48-â€™51 era). I realize that the pedal steel is a totally different instrument, Iâ€™ve been reading up on this forum since I bought my first Gibson BR-6 in 2011, so I have read the testimonials about how different it is. The opinions Iâ€™m seeking are things like this: should I get a single neck E9 guitar? Or just get the two necks? I do NOT want a student model, I would like to just go ahead and get a DECENT steel, I donâ€™t need the Rolls Royce Pedal Guitar that makes ya a ham sandwich while youâ€™re playing. Should I get an old Sho-Bud? Or should I stick with new and get a GFI? I play a lot of Hank SR. with the old console, would I be able to cover those tunes on a c6th pedal neck? And, heh, go easy, itâ€™s my first post! Here's my Console btw

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 22 Dec 2014 9:52 pm

Since you like playing old Hank Williams tunes I'd say get a double 10 string. You can play that style much better on the C6th neck of a D10, than you can on a single neck E9 tuned guitar. Plus there is a lot of instruction material available for the standard C6th tuning.

There still is a place for your very cool console steel, but I assume you would quickly tire of trying to gig with both steels. If nothing else, that would take up a lot of room on stage. A standard set-up D10 gives you a lot of musical versatility.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 Dec 2014 11:03 pm

The general consensus around here is that the best entry level steel is the Zum Stage One. Everybody who has one seems very happy with it.

Fred Justice · Post by **Fred Justice** » 23 Dec 2014 12:14 am

Jake since your not too far away, why don't you drive up and look over some guitars at our shop here.
I'd be happy to have you come for a visit.

Dave Campbell · Post by **Dave Campbell** » 23 Dec 2014 4:36 am

personally, i think that a guy who plays a 50's gibson console would enjoy one of the vintage doubleneck sho buds that are for sale on the forum. you can't go wrong with a bud, and they are relatively cheap for a pro quality instrument. they've also got a more vintage sound that i imagine you might enjoy. good luck on your journey to pedals!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 23 Dec 2014 6:36 am

you can't go wrong with a bud,

Umm. There are certain years and models of Sho-Buds made with the infamous "pot metal" parts underneath. They can be fine & reliable guitars - once you've replaced all the undercarriage! But you have to know what to look for. Nowadays there are... what, a dozen great brands? GFI, Justice, Rains, Mullen, Zum, Rittenberry, Williams, Desert Rose, Fessenden, I can't even remember them all. As well as many older of these, and Carters, MSA's, BCI's etc. Mr. Justice's offer is a good thought, even if you get an older brand having a great tech nearby is a lucky situation. I would say get a double right away, if you don't you'll always be wondering if you should have.

Ken Campbell · Post by **Ken Campbell** » 23 Dec 2014 6:38 am

I'm with Dave on this one. Get a D-10. I put it off and am sorry I did.

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 23 Dec 2014 7:47 am

Jacksons are similar to Sho-Buds because of their sound. I play a Jackson Blackjack Custom and it's awesome!

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 23 Dec 2014 8:59 am

The pedal steel can be seen as a "totally different instrument" in essentially two ways.

One is that pedals and levers can give a greater variety of chords by enabling chords that cannot be played on a non-pedal tuning. This of course applies to both common pedal steel tunings, but the chords available are different between them.

The other is that with pedals and levers one can simultaneously move the pitch of a sounding string (or strings) while another string (or strings) is sounding unchanged.

It seems to me that the latter is the aspect that most makes a totally different instrument of the pedal steel, and that aspect is far more generally employed on the E9th tuning than on the C6th.

So the choice of whether to go with two necks or one has a lot to do with what aspect(s) of pedal steel's potential you feel drawn to to give you things non-pedal can't.

(I'm sure advocates of "Universal" tuning will chime in here, too.)

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 23 Dec 2014 9:02 am

I'm with Fred. By everything I have seen on the forum, he's a great guy to deal with, and will shoot straight with you. Go take a trip to his place!

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 23 Dec 2014 10:14 am

Jacob Hacker wrote:Should I get an old Sho-Bud? Or should I stick with new and get a GFI?

If you opt for a brand-new instrument you are lucky to live in the Old Pueblo because you have at least two quality builders nearby.

Chuck Back is just up I-10 in Marana and builds the Desert Rose.

Fred Justice up in Mesa builds the Justice.

Seem to remember reading somewhere that the Infinity instruments are now being manufactured in Arizona. The Yuma area, perhaps? Someone here will know for sure.

Jacob Hacker · Post by **Jacob Hacker** » 23 Dec 2014 11:45 am

Thank you guys so much! you are a very helpful group of folks! Fred Justice, I plan on attending the SWSG Convention here in a few weeks, so I will be up there. I'll have to swing by!!

Tommy Everette · Post by **Tommy Everette** » 23 Dec 2014 12:33 pm

A Sho-Bud Super Pro is a fine instrument and seldom are there any problems with the parts breaking. The parts are very cheap when and If a problem occurs.
I've owned 3 and only had one knee bracket to break and that was all my fault.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 23 Dec 2014 1:43 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:The general consensus around here is that the best entry level steel is the Zum Stage One. Everybody who has one seems very happy with it.

I know of at least one guy, who uses a Stage One on sessions. Like Mike says, I don't know anybody who owns one, complain about it.

And Fred is, from all accounts (like Brother Scott Duckworth says),a fine man to deal with. He can help with both sides of a steel guitar. It's good to have a high caliber mechanic on call.

Dave Bertoncini · Post by **Dave Bertoncini** » 23 Dec 2014 1:53 pm

Jacob Hacker wrote:Seem to remember reading somewhere that the Infinity instruments are now being manufactured in Arizona. The Yuma area, perhaps? Someone here will know for sure.

Yes, you are correct...Frank Carter builds the Infinity in Yuma.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 23 Dec 2014 2:31 pm

Tommy Everette wrote:A Sho-Bud Super Pro is a fine instrument and seldom are there any problems with the parts breaking. The parts are very cheap when and If a problem occurs.
I've owned 3 and only had one knee bracket to break and that was all my fault.

I've owned one and had three brackets break. But, the Super~Pro is a good guitar, especially if you change out those brackets.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Dec 2014 3:38 pm

Tommy, the problem with pot metal is that it's not possible to figure out where the bubbles are. As long as they're not weak at the important places, they're fine.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 23 Dec 2014 11:25 pm

the problem with pot metal is that it's not possible to figure out where the bubbles are.

Of course it is! You step on a pedal and it breaks!

Mission accomplished.

Ahem. I'm not one of 'em, but there ARE people who know exactly which models and which years have these parts. It was only a few years. And there are and have been thriving cottage industries replacing the parts with sturdy new parts, to get the Sho-Bud sound without hocking up the hairballs. And some old Buds are already done; not surprisingly it takes money. As I gather Arizonians are somewhat used to driving, you are practically surrounded by experts, lucky you.

Re the single E9th Stage One and "this guitar's great, that guitar's great" I just think if you don't buy a doubleneck now, every time you even see the single E9th, you're going to wish you had the C6th (that you can't play either). Might as well get it and not play it now as opposed to waiting/lusting/wanting so you can not play it later.

Not surprisingly, it takes money... It's a bit difficult to scrounge pennies right at this stage - 2 grand'll at least kick the door open. Respect yer experts, they may have a line on a used trade-in or something as well as shiny new stuff. This site is refreshingly UN-permeated with the full-blown greed of many.

Adrian Wang · Post by **Adrian Wang** » 24 Dec 2014 8:57 am

Do consider the extra weight of a D10 should there be a need to carry it out of the house.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 24 Dec 2014 12:10 pm

David Mason wrote:
you're going to wish you had the C6th (that you can't play either). Might as well get it and not play it now as opposed to waiting/lusting/wanting so you can not play it later.

Not surprisingly, it takes money... It's a bit difficult to scrounge pennies right at this stage - 2 grand'll at least kick the door open.
jake, don't visit the limitations of certain people on yourself. you may very well take to a double neck quite well. a very little knowledge on each will get you started and then you learn more every day. you've been playing c6 on the console so you already have some knowledge on it.
it bothers me how much unfounded info is passed back and forth here as fact. you need to decipher what is real for yourself.

there have been some very good used double necks around for $1500 plus or minus lately.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 24 Dec 2014 1:15 pm

Jacob...While not a hard and fast rule, this information may prove helpful if you become interested in purchasing a Sho-Bud. The earlier models featured thicker aluminum keyheads with a pronounced curvature at the top (most often referred to as the "Gumby" keyhead). The later models (Super Pro era) had smaller bodies and straight keyheads which resembled those used most often by modern builders. These were the models with the dreaded pot metal undercarriage parts...Hope that this information proves useful and best of luck in your search.

John Alexander · Post by **John Alexander** » 24 Dec 2014 1:49 pm

A trip over to San Diego to visit Steel Guitars of North County would provide an opportunity to see a variety of used guitars up close.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 24 Dec 2014 3:15 pm

Unless I've missed something, the question nobody has asked is "what style of music do you want to play on the pedal steel?".

The only thing you mentioned is Hank Sr. stuff but you already have the perfect instrument for that.

If you want to continue playing with a more jazzy/swing style but using pedals (more along the Speedy West path, I guess) then I'd say get a PSG set up for C6.

If you want to play "Nashville style" steel or even rock/pop you're probably better off with an E9 setup.

If you want to play both (or want to keep your options open) you might want to look at double necks.

But without knowing what you are interested in playing, I din't think anyone can give you particularly helpful advice.

Paul Crawford · Post by **Paul Crawford** » 24 Dec 2014 4:51 pm

It's of good points made here but as usual, I'm a bit of contrarian.

I would not recommend buying a new instrument out of the gate. It's not needed and you don't yet know what you want. That new guitar can wait until you know what you'd really like. How many pedals? How many knees? Where to put what pull? What splits or compensators do you want? These were all good questions when I jumped into the new guitar market before I was ready. I had an excellent guitar built that I sold 9 months later when I found wanted something different.

The Steels for Sale section has some great guitars at reasonable prices. On the other hand, buying from a dealer will get you some help on setting up. Find a good deal on an 8 x 5 D10 and you'll be good to go for at least a couple of years. I recommend the Emmons Set up for the simple reason most teaching material tend to assume that copendent.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 24 Dec 2014 6:18 pm

Jeff Mead wrote:Unless I've missed something, the question nobody has asked is "what style of music do you want to play on the pedal steel?".

The only thing you mentioned is Hank Sr. stuff but you already have the perfect instrument for that.

If you want to continue playing with a more jazzy/swing style but using pedals (more along the Speedy West path, I guess) then I'd say get a PSG set up for C6.

If you want to play "Nashville style" steel or even rock/pop you're probably better off with an E9 setup.

If you want to play both (or want to keep your options open) you might want to look at double necks.

But without knowing what you are interested in playing, I din't think anyone can give you particularly helpful advice.

Also, if you want to play rock, you're better off with a 12 stringed instrument. The exta strings let you play power chords.

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I really wanna get a pedal steel and i need advice!

I really wanna get a pedal steel and i need advice!

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