Is the RH index finger truely "dumb"?

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

Hi folks. Right hand picking question... I had a teacher who told me (early in my learning experience) that the index finger (the one next to your thumb) is a finger that does not want to cooperate as well as your middle finger when picking. I found that to be kinda true – for me – but...

When I first took up the PSG about five years ago, I figured my experience with banjo and all the “rolls” learned on that instrument would translate easily. I was wrong... or was I? At first, I think the spacing of the strings on the PSG and the hand position difference from the banjo – or a regular acoustic guitar – was not what I expected. And I felt like a dope.

But then I attended a Doug Jernigan seminar. DiginDoug suggests scale practice which uses the index (or “a” finger – as I think DJ calls it) in his teaching material (Doug – jump in here any time). This was, and still is, contrary to the harmonized two string scale training I have learned, which was thumb and middle finger only. And/but, I’m still more comfortable with that. Thumb and middle finger.

Still, Doug’s “rolls” spoke to the banjo player in me. I decided to get back into his tab, and his “forward roll” really works and sounds great! The index finger still feels kinda “dumb” when picking the PSG. Yet DJ’s rolls really work if you take some time and practice them. I think it might be just a matter of time and practice to get these up to speed?

“At a moment like this I can’t help but thinking... What would Paul Franklin do?”

So, is the index finger, when playing the PSG, “dumb” or what? I feel more comfortable with thumb and middle, but perhaps that’s just the way I initially learned.

Best, -Dave

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Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Paul Franklin has the smartest index finger in the world..

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

I use my index finger as effectively as my middle, though I started out learning the thumb/middle finger method. The transformation started for me with a conversation with Joe Wright several years ago in St. Louis.To my mind, the goal is to be equally efective with thumb, index and middle finger, and I would love to add the ring finger into the mix as well, but haven't managed to do it yet. Yeah, the "rolls" make a lot of sense to me in certain situations. I believe that your hand can accomplish a lot of different things with training, and that there is not a single correct way to do things.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Dave, one of the fastest speed pickers I know of (Bruce Bouton), never could spell his name right

, uses only his thumb and middle finger. "Highway Forty Blues" "Country Boy" now there's a couple of speed pickin songs.
But after playin the banjo, you should be able to use your first finger easy, with a little practice. I tried playin banjo for a while, but couldn't afford a gibson, or one with a nice tone to it, so I just quit playin. but those forward and backward rolls I learned on the banjo, did help a little on the steel. I don't use 3 fingers a lot, but when I do it's a 3rd, 4th and 5th string or a 4-5-and 6 string backward roll, on fast songs, blockin each note after I hit em. it's hard for me to make a forward roll, I usually don't even try, unless it's on a medium tempo song.
I have the "No speed limit" speed spickin course by Jeff Newman. He uses a roll on 3-1-and 4 string (i think) I never could get it down, so I just quit tryin. backward rolls have always been easier for me.

BTW- which of Doug's courses have the forward and backward roll practices? I might order it to see if I can get it down.

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TW Sneed

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 24 March 2004 at 07:22 AM.]

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 24 March 2004 at 07:26 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Some players are more comfortable with the index finger and thumb.

Some are more comfortable with the middle finger and the thumb. (I am one)

But the best of both worlds is one that is just as comfortable with one or the other or both. I do not believe there is a player that is more dexterious than Doug Jernigan. After literally years of watching him play, he defies logic IMO.

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

My ring finger is the dumb one. It always wants to do exactly what the middle finger is doing. I've spent many, many, many hours of practice time trying to break that connection. Maybe surgery would help.

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Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

My theory is: "Your only as good as the weakest Link".
So with that....I believe you should always strive to make what feels odd; to feel as right as possible, and will only better your playing.
When in doubt and on the spot to perform...>always use the most comfortable for execution....>but never stop working on the "Weakest Link".
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 24 March 2004 at 11:56 AM.]

David Doggett · Posted 24 Mar 2004 12:49 pm

b0b is right. I think most steelers don't even use it, but the ring finger is the worst klutz. Try this. Put your hand palm down on a table with the fingers turned under. One by one stick a finger out straight and tap the table with it. All the others work fine, but the ring finger is nailed to the table - can't even move at all. Piano players have whole sets of excercises directed at that lame ring finger. Blame it on the reptiles. We got our five fingers from them. I don't know which finger a lizard would use for speed pickin'.

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

...???..my ring finger moves just as well as the rest of them when I try that, David...I use it all the time when picking, especially on the chromatic strings on fast rolls, but also for 4 note chords or widely spaced voicings..

David Cobb · From: Chanute, Kansas, USA

For some reason, I have trouble palm blocking when I use the thumb and middle, so I use the thumb and index quite a bit.
Bad habit I suppose.

[This message was edited by David Cobb on 24 March 2004 at 07:10 PM.]

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

b0b is right. I think most steelers don't even use it, but the ring finger is the worst klutz. "

I use my ring finger to block my notes with.
always have. never could block with my palm.
I think several players block with their ring finger doubbled under.

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TW Sneed

Dan Hatfield · From: Columbia, Mo USA

The smartest "first" finger I have seen lately belongs to Russ Hicks.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

For probably the first 20 years of my playing, I used the thumb and first finger. I then switched to middle finger, but still use the first on occasion. I think it's good to be able to do both. Of course, all of my fingers are pretty stupid, except for the middle finger. He knows how to tell people off.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Dave. You learned it right. Just like I did, Just like Bruce Bouten did.

From the same guy, if I'm guessing right.

Beware of people that can't accept the differences between right and wrong, clean and sloppy, in tune and out of tune.

Oh, I guess they're never really wrong...

But it's at the expense of never really being right....

All in good fun of course.

I've yet to find a single thing I learned from a red headed guy out of Luray VA to be wrong myself. He was pretty inflexible alright, but he made the HOF..

Others' results of course...

EJL

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

Slightly aside from guitar playing, I strained my right hand middle finger a couple of weeks ago and discovered that I could still play guitar, but was completely unable to ride my motorbike. Apparently I do all my braking with my right middle finger.
On the other hand, (oops! sorry for the unintentional pun)I control the clutch with the left hand ring finger.
I tried the hand on table test, and with my left hand, it's the ring finger and little finger that are tied together, but
I have full independent control of all four right hand fingers.
It's just the fact that I'm left handed that makes it a bit strange.
Cheerd
Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 26 March 2004 at 04:53 AM.]

Don Townsend · From: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada

"Is the RH index finger truly dumb"?
Well, on my hand, it sure is. But it has a lot of company on that same hand!!!

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Joaquin Murphey said his fast single line stuff was thumb and index, so that blows the "dumb" theory. BTW, I think your ring and pinky fingers share a tendon, which is why independence is so difficult.

joe wright · From: Jackson, Michigan

To develop the index finger start playing what you already play using only your three fingers. Do not use the thumb. The index finger takes a while but it can be done. You must train the independence into your fingers.

Also start playing using only your first and second finger as you would Thumb/Two.

You should practice...

Thumb/One alternate
Thumb/Two alternate
One/Two alternate
Two/Three alternate
Thumb/Three alternate etc.

Just practice as you normally would but isolate the two you want to work on....joe

Perry Hansen · From: Bismarck, N.D.

For years I use three finger picks and all three fingers. But, after a few barroom modifications, I had to go to two fingers and us the middle finger most of the time because the index finger is 1/4 inch shorter that it should be. Some pickers are not good because of the way they use thier fingers, but in spite of the way they use thier fingers.

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