Help, can't figure out how to lower my G# whole

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

A whole tone. I'm tryin to get that change Bobby Boggs and C Dixon where talkin about.
lowering the G# a whole tone, then addin the B pedal. I can't get it lowered but just a half tone.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Terry, you don't mention what brand of guitar you own, but you probably need to add more travel to the lever in question. Increase the travel, then you should be able to lower it. To get the split w/the B pedal in tune, you need to have a another rod w/tuning nut etc. or a screw to the rear of the pull finger. Also, a .022 plain string requires less travel than a .022 wound.

If you give a little more info, what kind of guitar, what size string, someone will probably will know exactly how to do it.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

sorry Bill, I have an emmons all pull.
my LKR knee lever lowers my G# a half tone, and also raises my F# (1st string) a half tone. I use that F# raise some, but if i have to, I'll give it up to get the G# lowered a whole tone and the split with my B pedal. I'm not sure where to hook the rod you were talkin about to get the split, sorry, I just ain't mechanically minded.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 30 March 2004 at 08:26 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Terry, there are a number of things that it could be. Let's tackle some of them.

First as the poster said, it may be just not enough travel that is the problem. Since your guitar was setup to only lower the G# to a G, the travel is set for that.

Now how do you change it? Ok, I am assuming you have 14 hole bellcranks. The pull rod attaching to that bellcrank gains travel the further you move away from the crossrod. In other words the top hole (viewed with the guitar upside down) is hole #14. The bottom most hole is #1. Notice there are two Columns of holes. Odd and even. IE, 1, 3, 5 versuse 2, 4, 6 etc.

So notice which hole the 6th string lower pull rod is attached to the bellcrank. Write this down. So you can always go back to that hole if necessary.

Carefully remove the E-clip then remove the pullrod from that hole and move it up to a higher hole. This will NOT affect your first string pull. I would suggest several holes higher. Replace the E-clip and try it. You may have to go even higher.

This will probably work. IF not, it could be the gauge of string you are using. A wound string will not make it on an Emmons' LeGrande in most cases. So if you are using a wound string, try a plain .022 string and see if it will lower a full tone.

The final thing you might wish to check and this is NOT likely but it could be the problem. Look at the changer when you engage that knee lever. You will see the finger move to your right sitting at your guitar. There is a row of allen screws that normally do not do anything.

But it is possible that the 6th string allen screw has been inadvertently turned in and preventing the changer finger from lowering a full tone. IF so back out this screw until it no longer causes the problem.

If you still get it to work, please call me at 770-448-8455. We can get it working I am sure. And do not hesitate to call any day or any time. I will be happy to try and help you. I AM serious.

Now assuming you get the problem corrected, how do you tune the split? Ok first, let's see what the split is doing. When you lower a string a whole tone and then pull it a half a tone, it is the same as IF you only lowered it a half tone.

However, in MOST cases it will NOT be in tune. In some cases not even close so you could "live with it". So your Emmons LeGrande came with "split tuning" capability. Not all PSG's are setup for that.

Use the following to tune the split.

1. Tune the B pedal as normal.

3. While engaging the B pedal, engage the knee lever that lowers the string a whole tone. Hold these two engaged.

4. Adjust the nylon lower tuner (6th string) until the split note (G) is in tune.

5. Release the B pedal while still engaging the whole tone lower with your knee lever.

6. Adjust that allen screw (6th string mentioned above) until the whole tone lower is in tune.

Good luck and again please do not hesitate to call me if you run into a problem.

carl

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Hey Carl, it may be more of a problem than what i originally thought.
I have the 4 hole bellcrank, and the pull rod is in the last hole(furtherest from crossrod).
is this goin to be a big job? if it is, I can just leave it like it is. I'd like to have that change but I ain't good at makin changes on this complicated piece of machinery.

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Terry,Most likely The set-screws Carl mentioned is the problem.Since your guitar just lowers the 6th 1/2 tone.Most likely someone has adjusted the set screw to stop the lower at 1/2 tone.Back off on the screw till the 6th string lowers a full tone.Lowering the 6th string with a 20 or 22 plain guage string doesn't take a lot of changer throw.
Once you get the full tone lower then follow Carl's directions for split tuning.

Also once you back off the 6th string set-screw you will most likely be able to move the rod to the 2nd or 3rd hole in the bellcrank.I'd try the 2nd hole.Hope this helps...........bb

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 30 March 2004 at 05:37 PM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Bobby is correct,

If you have the 4 hole bellcranks, there should be plenty of travel for that 6th string lower pull rod, but you may have to use the outer most hole.

But first try what Bobby says,

carl

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Not exactly on topic, but, would you still want to raise the first string to G while lowering the 6th. That G gives you the 7th of the A chord with A & B pedals down. It's nice to have that G above the A, C# and E on strings 4, 5, and 6. You will lose that low A note. Just wondering. I wouldn't do it. Although, I do use the 6th lower to F# a lot more than the F# to G.

Just wonderin'

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Carl, Bobby, ya'll were right about the set screw. I backed it off and then could lower my 6th string to F#. but, after I engaged the 6th along with the B pedal, and tuned the 6 at the end plate, then released the B pedal, and tuned the 6 with the allen screw, I'm right back where I started.
I get an E chord whether i hit the strings open or with the 6th lowered and the B pedal engaged. I'm usin a 22 plain string, so it must be somethin else, or I ain't tuning it right.
oh, and the pull rod is in the outter most hole at the bell crank, and bottom hole at the changer. do I need to put the rod in the top hole at the changer? would that help?
thanks guys, I appreciate ya'lls help.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 31 March 2004 at 08:29 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Terry,

I find this perplexing. When you say you are getting an E chord with the split, are you absolutely positive of that? That just does not make sense.

Here is what you should have:

(All on the 6th string)

1. Open string it is a G#

2. Just B pedal it is an A

3. B pedal and knee lever it is a G

4. Just knee lever it is an F#.

I am afraid very respectfully we are making a mountain out of a molehill. Literally 100's of PSG players are using the split with no problems on the LeGrande II.

So once again let's try this one more time:

1. Back off the allen screw all the way so it has NO affect at all.

2. Tune your open 6th string so it is a G#

3. Engage your B pedal and tune it so it is an A note.

4. While holding the B pedal engaged, engage the knee lever and adjust the "LOWER" nylon tuner so it is a G note.

5. While holding the knee lever engaged, release the B pedal and tune the allen screw so it is an F#.

6. Fine tune it by going thru steps 2 thru 5 once again.

IF this does not work, please call me @ 770-448-8455.

carl

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Ok Carl, I'll try it again. all I know is when I got through goin through the steps you told me, I came up with an E chord(open E chord) whether I was engaging the B pedal and knee lever or not either way gave me an E
but I may have done it wrong, so I'll write the steps down and take em with me to my guitar and try it again.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

well Carl, at least I came up with a different chord this time. I'm gettin an F# minor on the 8th fret. am I gettin closer?

I wrote the steps down and done each step at a time. when holdin the knee lever down and engaging the B pedal, I'm getting my G note by matching to the G note on the first string. my F# to G note. then I released the pedal while still holdin the knee lever in and tuned to F# with the allen head screw.
that should be right, but somehow i don't think it is.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 31 March 2004 at 11:41 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I don't know bout the F# minor at the 8th fret, but it sounds like you are on the right track now with your procedure.

When properly adjusted, you should get the following combinations at the 8th fret:

(strings 4, 5 and 6)

1. No pedals or knee lever; C major (C G E)

2. A pedal only; A minor (C A E)

3. B pedal only; Csus4 (C G F)

4. A and B pedal; F major (C A F)

5. Knee lever only; Csus9 (C G D)

6. A, B and knee lever; F7th (C A Eb)

7. B and knee lever; C minor (C G Eb)

8. A pedal and knee lever; F6th (C A D)

Keep on truckin,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 31 March 2004 at 12:38 PM.]

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Ok, I reckon that's close enough. I was wrong about the F# minor. I'm gettin the C minor 8th fret, same as the C minor on the 11th fret (with A pedal only.) Hotdog I think I got it! thanks a bunch Carl, and Bobby for ya'lls patience(sp) and help.

Richard, to answer your question, I really like the sound of the 1st and 2nd Chromatic strings together when rasing the F# to G.
for instance, playin in F, 8th fret on strings 3and 4, I hit strings 1 and 2 at the same time raise the F# to G right before goin in to B-flat,on strings 3 and 4, then I do the same when goin in to C, then slide up to the 9th fret, raise the F# and go into F on strings 3 and 4. perty vanilla.

Terry

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 31 March 2004 at 01:30 PM.]

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 31 March 2004 at 02:46 PM.]

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 31 March 2004 at 03:02 PM.]

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 31 March 2004 at 03:06 PM.]

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