E9 Standard Setups - Bring Some Copedents

Zane King · Post by **Zane King** » 2 Dec 2014 3:14 pm

Hey Steel friends,

Well, now I've went and done it! I'm going to setup one of guitars with a standard 10 string E9 tuning. I've decided it is time for me to offer tutorial materials. I love teaching and seems like a good number of pickers really want me to offer more written and video instruction. So I'm going to do that!

As I did when I was very young, I will offer everything in both E9 and my own E 6/9 setup. Now many of you that are familiar with my playing, know that my setup is anything but standard. Yet for this to be a successful venture I know I need to offer everything in E9. That said, it's been so long since I have studied up on what even is standard. I have some ideas for sure but what I would LOVE is for you to tell me what your E9 setup looks likeâ€¦.

SO POST YOUR E9 COPEDENT HERE! Or if you can't post it then at least describe it. THANK YOU!

Stay tuned,

Zane

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Dec 2014 4:05 pm

Zane, I have 4.5 pedals (I have not learned to use my Franklin pedal on P5)
P1 raises 1&2 to G# and E
2,3&4 are A, B & C
P5 lowers 5 & 10 to A
LKL, raises Es to F
LKV lowers 5 & 10 to A#
LKR lowers Es to D
RKL raises 1 to G and lowers 6 to F#.
RKR lowers 2 to C # with a half-stop at D and lowers 9 to C#

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Dec 2014 4:39 pm

D string gone. It's a pull on the B string Low E string added.

Wesley Medlen · Post by **Wesley Medlen** » 2 Dec 2014 5:30 pm

P-1 5 & 10 C# P-2 3 & 6 A P-3 4-F# 5-C# LKL 4&8 F LKR 4&8 D# RKL 1&6 G RKR 2-C# 7-G VL 5&10 A# I have never caught on to the 9th string so I use that lever on 7RKR with pedals down for a 7th in some instance's.

John Scanlon · Post by **John Scanlon** » 2 Dec 2014 9:12 pm

I have 4 pedals and 5 KLs.

1, 2,& 3 are A, B & C
P4 lowers 5 & 6 a whole step - but I'm seriously thinking about changing this to Lane's zero pedal, and putting it at P1, moving ABC over to the right.
LKL raises Es to F
LKV lowers 5 & 10 to A#
LKR lowers Es to D#
RKL raises 1 and 7 to G# with a half-stop at G.
RKR lowers 2 to C # with a half-stop at D and lowers 9 to C#

I think the F# to G raise makes a ton of sense at LKV, too.

If you're planning on doing a good bit of total-beginner stuff, you may want to see what the fixed copedents are for a Carter Starter and a Stage One (which has I believe two choices for each RK). Those seem to be the most widely available student guitars with "standard" copedents.....or at least they were at one point. I believe Doug E told me once that a common change requested on the Encore is raising 1 a whole step while lowering 6 a whole step.

Good luck, can't wait to see your E9 stuff.

DG Whitley · Post by **DG Whitley** » 3 Dec 2014 5:37 pm

Here's mine for your consideration:

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admin · Post by **b0b** » 3 Dec 2014 7:56 pm

This is the copedent I recommend to my students, Zane.
[tab]
LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
F# +G
D# -D
G# +A
E +F +F# -D#
B -A# +C# +C#
G# -F# +A
F#
E +F -D#
D -C#
B +C#

[/tab]
My theory on the top strings is that the D and G are much more important than having an extra G# and C#, and it's hard for beginners to feel a half stop.

Larry Hamilton · Post by **Larry Hamilton** » 5 Dec 2014 9:57 pm

I play the "Day" setup with a "Crawford" D on the second string. Terry Bethel showed that to me. Plus I lower lowB to A on a knee. Raise 1&2 to g# and E on a stagger. Lower 6th string, G#, on a knee, 5th string to A on the 4th pedal. It's all more than I need but it's there if I need it.

Jay Jessup · Post by **Jay Jessup** » 6 Dec 2014 6:40 am

I think the changes Bob shows on his setup are as close to 'standard E9' as we have these days. Add a couple of splits on the 5 and 6 string and I can't think of much else you need to get 99% of what you hear being played on E9 either now or in the past.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 6 Dec 2014 8:10 am

Right. I do assume tunable splits on strings 5 and 6, and I teach the forward bar slant to emulate the E and G# (with the G lever) on the top strings, like Lloyd does.

On my personal guitar I have a "0 pedal" to get the C# on the second string and low A on the 10th. I don't see those as necessary changes, though, and I don't encourage anyone to add them. The standard 3+5 can produce everything that bandleaders require.

Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · Post by **Jim Lindsey (Louisiana)** » 6 Dec 2014 8:37 am

Zane, mine is not what you'd call "standard" today due to my knee lever arrangement (though it was a popular arrangement in the mid to late 70s to have the "E" raise/lower on the right knee), but I thought I'd include it.

From 1977 through 1987, my E9th setup looked like this:

In 1988 I went to a five knee setup and from 1988 to present day my E9th copedent is like this:

admin · Post by **b0b** » 6 Dec 2014 9:02 am

Your 7th string isn't really tuned to F, is it Jim?

Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · Post by **Jim Lindsey (Louisiana)** » 6 Dec 2014 12:49 pm

Oops .. thanks, Bob ... no, it's an F# ... I gotta change that typo in my copedent.

Okay ... fixed that typo now

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 6 Dec 2014 6:12 pm

bOb, I like your setup. It makes sense. Thanks, Gary

Larry Allen · Post by **Larry Allen** » 7 Dec 2014 11:03 am

10 string Ext E9...great for all kinds of music!.

Zane King · Post by **Zane King** » 8 Dec 2014 7:49 pm

This is very valuable to me! I appreciate all of the folks too that have emailed me their copedents. Gonna be fun!

Paul Hoaglin · Post by **Paul Hoaglin** » 9 Dec 2014 9:52 am

For what it's worth, here's mine currently:

Richard Mitcham · Post by **Richard Mitcham** » 29 May 2023 3:04 pm

So ok, I'm playing catch up I thought 4 knee levers was enough for me learning and all but, about everything on this page has at least 5 or 6 knee levers. Are most of you guys saying I'LL need to add at least one or two more knee levers sorry didn't mean to butt in here.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 30 May 2023 7:42 am

Richard, I started 6 years ago with the Stage One 3+4. It was PLENTY.
https://www.stageonesteelguitars.com/_f ... 56fd54.pdf
I only got another guitar with a more complex setup because I could afford it, but honestly, 90% of what I play now I could still do on that Stage One. The Encore is an excellent choice too, with the 5th lever (vertical), and adjustable hardware. I also considered the GFI when I was shopping.

It doesn’t really matter how complicated your setup is when you start. You have to get the basics down before you can even think about most of what your guitar’s copedent is capable of doing for you and the music you want to play.

This is an old thread. I’m not worried too much about whether or not it has been hijacked.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 30 May 2023 9:45 am

Richard:

When I got my first steel fifty years ago, it was a ZB Student with 3+1. Now it seems as though 3+4 is the new 'basic' set up (or, maybe, 3+5). That would have shocked me in 1972!

I came to understand the E9 tuning more thoroughly just because 3+1 was 'all' I had. I plead guilty to now having six KLs and four pedals on my E9 alone but the extra '1+2' are luxuries. They get a lot of use but there's a lifetime of study in the most rudimentary set-up.

Tommy Mc · Post by **Tommy Mc** » 30 May 2023 9:46 am

Fred Treece wrote:Richard, I started 6 years ago with the Stage One 3+4. It was PLENTY.
https://www.stageonesteelguitars.com/_f ... 56fd54.pdf

I think this is the most practical answer to Zane's question. Steel makers have already looked at the most popular and/or essential changes and offer them in base model 3x4 guitars.

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E9 Standard Setups - Bring Some Copedents

E9 Standard Setups - Bring Some Copedents

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