On The Soap Box for KLINE

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 29 Feb 2004 11:50 am

Well I finally took the plunge and got a Kline! Being very partial to keyless guitars and having owned most every keyless made (except Kline) at one time or another, I decided about a month ago to take a chance on that guitar with the "off the beaten path" mechanism. I can see now why I NEVER saw or heard any negative comments about it. I bought it and sent it to Joe Kline for a set up change over and after a few weeks of enjoying it I can now say I think I've found the guitar I've been looking for (for 20+ yrs). So much so that I just sold my Zum that I said I would NEVER sell and have just bought another Kline! Don't get me wrong Zum is in my opinion the best guitar made,,,and if Bruce made a keyless,,,,,. Honestly Kline is THE most unsung PSG out there. If you ever get a chance to play one do,,,and see for yourself why people who own Klines say they'll never part with them. I think the mechanism is similar to the old ZBs,,which may account for all the positive opinions of them. I'd like to hear from some other Kline owners (reviews, comments etc.) like the ongoing thread on the ZBs. Com'on Kline owners,,,stand up and be counted.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 29 Feb 2004 1:27 pm

Sonny, since I am the one that sold you the Kline, I am very pleased to find out how happy you are with it. In all the years I had it, I always said "I will never sell this guitar." I started out in 1969 with an Emmons PP and got this wild hair that I would like to have another Emmons PP. I kept the PP and the Kline for quite a while, trying to decide which one to keep. I finally let the Kline go, probably because the Emmons was Black and the Kline was Rosewood. It was certainly a toss up as to which one to keep. I think I was just ready for a change. The Kline really served me well. It sounded great, stayed in tune, didn't break strings. What more could you ask in a guitar? I was a very satisfied Kline owner and if I get in the market for another guitar, it will be another Kline. I really miss the keyless tuning of the Kline.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 29 Feb 2004 5:51 pm

I can't compare Kline to other guitars because I don't know anything about other guitars anymore. I've been a Kline man for a long time. But I will once again argue in favor of the keyless tuning system. In another thread Carl Dixon talked about not liking the looks of the short length of a keyless guitar and I didn't bother to comment in that thread but let me say now that It seems foolish to me that people are willing to forfit the advantages of the keyless system just to have the same look they've grown used to with a keyed guitar. When cars were first invented they had a hand crank in the front which the driver had to turn many times to get the car started. I wonder how many car owners at that time would have nothing to do with new cars that started with a key because they liked the looks of the crank in the front even though it was so much easier to start a car with a key? When they invented rubber for the tires how many people said they liked the looks of wooden wheels better and refused to use rubber tires? And when they invented the windshield how many said they preferred the looks of a car without the windshield? Ron Lashley once told me the reason Emmons Guitars doesn't make keyless guitars was because they're ugly! Remember, Anipeg is the Rolls Royce of steels and they are ALL keyless. Now Klines have a remarkable reputation and they are all keyless. Why are so many steel manufacturers so far behind on this issue? Why are so many players so subborn about this? I really don't get it.[This message was edited by Don McClellan on 29 February 2004 at 05:54 PM.]

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 29 Feb 2004 5:53 pm

Hey George,,,yes I sent it to Joe for a set up change, I took out the gouges out of the pick up housing and cleaned the sticky stuff off the back. I've got a laquer Kline on the way that will need some set up work that I may try to do myself. They are great little guitars. Lets hear from some more proud Kline owners!!!!!!

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 29 Feb 2004 6:36 pm

Amen Don McClellan! I've never owned a Kline although I've flirted with the idea since I first heard about them in the 70s.I have owned and still own 2 other keyless guitars - a Sierra and an Excel and I'm sold on the concept. I read here the other day that there were some new Klines being built and the question presents itself: Are they going to be the exact same changer or might they possibly have an increase in the raise/lower capabilities. As I understand it you can have 2 raise/1 lower or 2 lower/1 raise. To me,this was the only design shortcoming on the Kline guitar especially for a loaded U-12.I have a tape of Jeff Newman playing Roy Orbison's "Crying" on a 2 tone laquer 12 string at Scotty's Convention in 1984 and it still brings goosebumps. What a tone!
-MJ-

Jeff Hogsten · Post by **Jeff Hogsten** » 29 Feb 2004 8:54 pm

is the Kline still made. I visited Joe back in 79 or 80 when I was spending a few weeks in Niles Ohio playing at a rivival meeting with a gospel group I was in. Joe came over and heard us and practly gave me a guitar which is the only way I could have afforded it at that time. He was a great guy but I never stayed in touch. I had to sell the guitar a couple of years later to pay off some debts, story of my life but I loved it. I still wonder why the keyless is not more popular

Jeff Hogsten

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 1 Mar 2004 3:14 am

My my!!
All those questions. LOOK AT MY SITE: http://julianwinston.com and look for the piece about the Kline. It shows the mechanism and all the details.
The idea that you can have 2 raises/lowers and only one other if false.
Look at the stuff on my site. I have the B going to C# on pedal 1, 3, and 4. This counts as ONE change (B to C#) Because Joe is using pullers like the old Fenders, you can have any number of pulls (to the same note) on any string.
I have 6 pedals and 8 knees on my Single 12, and never found the changer lacking in any way.
I have had mine since 1979, and I can count the times on one hand that I've had to touch the tuning on the changer.
I once did a seminar and was asked how I tune my pedals (i.e., how many cents sharp or flat). I said I didn't know-- because in the three years I had the guitar I had never found a need to touch any of the pedal/knee tunings.
I liked it when I first saw it, bought a keyless unit from Joe to put on my home-built, and then got the Kline I now play.
It does all I want in a steel. Of all those out there, I'd love to have an Anapeg-- but that's because it's an amazing guitar (and keyless too). But the waiting list is too long.
So I'm happy that I have the Kline I got.
I'll be coming to St. Louis this year, and Joe is bringing a steel for me to play-- dammed if I'm going to lug mine through US Customs!

Want details? Check out my web site.

JW

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 1 Mar 2004 6:21 am

Rick Troyer of Hummingbird Music is having Joe Kline build a few Klines for him. Here is what Rick wrote me a few weeks ago: "We're getting closer ! Joe has a S-12 ready for copedent set up . The sale price is $2995 . We haven't reached a price on the D-10 as of yet . A ballpark figure would be around $3495 . If you're interested we could build the guitar to your spec. re. color, coepedent etc." Here is Rick's email: rick@hummingbirdmusicstudio.com So if you want a new Kline, here is your chance to get one, now. steve [This message was edited by steve takacs on 01 March 2004 at 06:23 AM.]

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 1 Mar 2004 9:03 am

Same experience as Winnie for me. I've had my Kline U-12 for 20 years. I've never--NEVER--had to adjust the changer! I've been reading, with amazement and no small amount of amusement, the other threads about the problems involving pre-stretching strings when using keyless tuners. This is never an issue with my Kline. I just pull the strings as much as is comfortable, lock in, tune up. Then I use an old Fender string stretcher. It's one of those little gadjets that you hook onto the string, then slide up and down a few times. Then I retune the string, and I'm good to go for days and days. Usually, the only string I have to retune is the G#, and that's normal. Playing house gigs 5 to 6 nights a week, the only string I'd have to retune would be that third, and I'd usually replace that one once a week. These guitars are rock-steady!

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 1 Mar 2004 1:05 pm

You hear so much about cabinett drop. Get your Kline in tune, and then hit that E string or any other, and mash the A&B down and see what the drop is. I've had mine since 89' and It's a keeper. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'
PS: The "drop" on mine is hardly measurable.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 2 Mar 2004 9:34 am

Michael, I used to looked at it the same way but Kline approaches changes from a different angle,,,,,,not how many pedals and knees are active, but how many tones the string is changed to. It's pretty easy to get a 4 tone change on the same string. Mine has the standard Newman set up but some of these I'm seeing have a Kazillion changes. I don't really think there is a limit when it's appraoched from this angle

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 Mar 2004 1:34 pm

Can anyone of you Kline owners tell me how much a S10. S12 or D10 Weighs all setup out of the case.??? I am just curious about that............al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 2 Mar 2004 1:50 pm

"Ron Lashley once told me the reason Emmons Guitars doesn't make keyless guitars was because they're ugly!"

Yep, my sentiments exactly. Foolish to some maybe, but not to me. "One man's cupa tea is another man's anathema".

I LOVE my keyless, but I would hate it if it looked like a keyless.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007228.html

Thank Jesus, Mitsuo was gracious enough to make my keyless look like I wanted it to.

To each his own Don

carl

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Mar 2004 2:19 pm

Carl,,,,,Gotta disagree with you on this one! I think keyless guitars are beautiful. After all, it's just the cabinet being a few inches shorter in your case. I know that a couple of dozen shiney tuning keys make for great eye-candy, but there's something to be said for the lovely simplicity of the form-follows-function design of keyless guitars. Well,, It's,, it's mo scientific!
Best, JB

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 2 Mar 2004 3:34 pm

I'm leaning more and more towards getting a keyless due to the benefits many of you describe. So: any one have ratings on Williams vs Kline vs ??? Don't bother with Sierra, I've played those enough to know they're not the tone (or weight!) for me. I always did love Klein tone, especially Don McClellan's. Howdy, Don!

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 2 Mar 2004 4:48 pm

Al, If I remember right, my single 12 on a double body is 56 lbs out of the case. I had an SS12 set up the same way that was that was 36 lbs. The one I have is Mica and , the SS was laquer. Jim. I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 2 Mar 2004 4:53 pm

John I owned a Willy for about 6 months,,,bought it brand new, built the way I wanted and sold it at a substantial loss! Can't say anything bad about it,,,just didn't feel good to me.I've also owned GFI, Lamar and Sierra,,,same story. The Kline feels right, sounds right and looks right to me. I wonder how many Kline owners are tuned in here? Stand and be counted.

Jack Klein · Post by **Jack Klein** » 2 Mar 2004 6:10 pm

Hi, Sonny, have a S10 Kline and it is a keeper. have tried two others and am glad I didn't get goofy and sell it.
and, Al, I think it is about 35# out of the case Jack

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 3 Mar 2004 2:26 am

Weight? Just went over to Australia with my S-12. It is quite full-- 6 pedals and 8 knees.
I have a secondary case for travel-- a cardboard box with 1" thick Ethafoam all around. Ther regular case fits in that box.
The total weight was 28 kilos. (about 61.5 pounds)

JW

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 3 Mar 2004 6:43 am

Does anyone know how many Klines were made? Or when the last one was produced? I understand Joe is building 3 more for Rick Troyer. Since there was a limited number produced (as were the ZBs) I am fortunate to have 2 of them. At some point I'll probably sell one of mine.

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 3 Mar 2004 8:26 pm

It's been a few months since I've been up here on the SGF, and look what I've missed... Joe Kline is making steels again?

I've had my Kline S-12 for over 25 years. It's still the only steel I gig with. Action and tone is wonderful. Very low maintenance. The changer stays in tune as others have mentioned. The keyless tuner, with no gear slop, is very precise and easy to tune, more so than conventional tuners in my experience. Changing strings is easy and quick. As for appearance, Joe's design has a simple elegance that looks classy (my opinion). Conventional tuners almost look wierd to me now.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 4 Mar 2004 1:55 am

I really don't care for keyless guitars. I've seen the Kline's but didn't care for the way they looked on stage.
I've fooled around with Steels for over 18 years, and IMHO Emmons guitars especially old P/P's are the best in sound, and ZumSteels rank up there second in sound as well as excellence in playability. NR

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 4 Mar 2004 10:39 am

That's cool Nick,,,,"one man's trash is another man's treasure". No doubt Zums are great guitars,,,I just sold one to buy another Kline. (I'm sure at some point in my life I'll buy another Zum!). I'll try to have at least one of my Klines at the Dallas show for those who have never seen/played one.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 4 Mar 2004 2:16 pm

Bruce, I know what you mean. After playing the Kline for many years, I now have an Emmons PP and it just looks funny to me. I don't like all that wasted space for tuning keys. It really is what you get used to. If you are holding a bee in your hand, what do you have in your eye? answer: Beauty, because BEAUTY LIES IN THE EYE OF THE BEE-HOLDER! This pretty much sums it up. It is human nature to be swayed by looks. That is why there is so much makeup for sale at Wal-Mart. Is there really any woman that is so ugly she would need all that stuff? A lot of steeler's are swayed by eye candy on a guitar, and unfortunately, it is often a mistake.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 5 Mar 2004 4:54 pm

Surely there are some more Kline owners out there???????? Kinda makes us feel like part of a elite group.