Bandmaster Reverb???

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 22 Oct 2014 8:36 pm

What are your opinions or experience with the Fender Silverface Bandmaster Reverb heads from the early 70s? I'm thinking it could be a good head for low volume gigs and for recording. It appears to be a Dual Showman Reverb with half the power, which could be very useful at times.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 22 Oct 2014 11:18 pm

I picked one up really cheap and converted it to a Vibroverb. After some mods (beefed-up OT and SS rectifier), it sounds very nice, but only for quiet gigs. When I played with a loud band, it farted out and broke up. Not much headroom. But in the right situation, it sounds nice, really nice for PSG.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 23 Oct 2014 4:20 am

I've got a '68 Bandmaster Reverb head and love it. They are the lower power class of Fenders using 2 6L6's. I've retubed mine and it clocked in at roughly 37 watts. If your gig isn't too loud, they're awesome for steel, and also being a two channel Fender, you can use one channel EQ'd and ready for steel and the other channel EQ'd and ready for guitar. I love this amp, an all-time favorite. It wants to see a 4-ohm speaker load.

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Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 23 Oct 2014 5:20 am

I had one and it was awful.. No headroom at all.. They have small transformers,and sound like it.. Interstingly, I have owned and played through at least 2 NON reverb Bandmasters, as well as a Tremolux, and the sound was much better, bigger, cleaner, with more headroom.
It was ditched in short order.
The BMR heads can be easily modded into a much cleaner, and better sounding amp with Bassman transformers, and some minor tweaks. bob

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 23 Oct 2014 5:45 am

Yes, the BMR is not nearly as clean and stiff as the others in that dual 6L6 class using the larger transformers. It's a smoother, squishier sounding amp that may not deliver that clean thing at your required volume. But if the power/loudness suits your stage, it can be plenty loud, but I play gigs where often a Deluxe Reverb is loud enough.

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Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 23 Oct 2014 8:24 am

It sounds like the Bandmaster Reverb would be perfect. I'm really looking for something that sounds great at low volumes. I wouldn't plan it use it for most gigs.

I thought I had a line on one, but that seems to no longer be the case.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 23 Oct 2014 9:06 am

Of course, 90% of those E9th PSG, low vol gigs can be covered by a Deluxe Reverb with a K-120 in it. Unless, maybe you play low notes (C6th), then maybe you'd want a 15" speaker and more power.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 23 Oct 2014 9:25 am

"The BMR heads can be easily modded into a much cleaner, and better sounding amp with Bassman transformers, and some minor tweaks. bob"

Sure wish I had known that before I got rid of that awful BMR head. It was dreadful.....

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Oct 2014 3:10 am

Me, I would pass..my opinion of BM's and BMR's is not a good one, I find them to be the least useful Fender amps from this era..a BMR is NOT 1/2 a DSR...

Headroom on this amp ( stock) is just way too limited...

but , thats just me...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Oct 2014 5:23 am

'Lotta people don't realize that for amps like the Bassman and Bandmaster, it was the speaker cabinets that made them special.

The amps alone, with their medium-wattage designs, were actually designed to work with those big cabinets (which easily doubled their effective power output). No wonder hooking them up to a smaller cabinet often proves disappointing.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Oct 2014 5:52 am

huh? I bought the bandmaster head & bottom together. The speaker cab had two 12" Fender Speakers in it. It was more cabinet then this amp needed. Almost gave me a hernia. In fact, the Bandmaster head sounded better, and was louder with the Carvin bottom I ran it through. Power was never the problem for me, tone was. Any guitar I ran through it sounded thin. Just gawd awful. It was a disappointment all the way around.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Oct 2014 5:58 am

I think that the lack of clean headroom is exactly what makes these lower-power class dual 6L6 amps special. They're not the clean machines steel players expect, but that compression, that sag, that gushy feel is a VERY musical thing when that's what you're after. I think the BMR just sings like a bird on pedal steel at low volume. Although at power/loudness levels below max, it's absolutely a glisteningly clean amp.

But do be careful because many of these were in that weird 1969 period where CBS messed with the output section in some really stupid ways, and they need to be reverted to true, blackface spec's. It's terribly easy to do, but it does need to be done to sound right. I imagine that a number of those who were disappointed in their BMR may have been hearing these dumb CBS mods from that '69/'70 timeframe. My '68 just sings like a sweet blackface Fender amp should, but it's not that punchy or stiff compared to the big-transformer models at full power.

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George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Oct 2014 6:03 am

Mine wasn't "Blackface"

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Oct 2014 6:28 am

I was referring to the Fender Bandmaster Reverb amplifier of the early 70's. Not a "Blackface" Bandmaster. Thought that's what the author of this post was referring to?

"What are your opinions or experience with the Fender Silverface Bandmaster Reverb heads from the early 70s?"

Anyways, mine was just exactly like this one. The amp head on the thing was durn near as big as a combo amp with a speaker in it. A big amp head. More cab, then amp. I finally ran the amp head though a smaller Carvin cab, with a single 12. Sounded better, louder, still not great. The reverb on the amp, was the worse in fender's history. Hope it helps. JMHO

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 24 Oct 2014 7:36 am

George Redmon wrote:... The reverb on the amp, was the worse in fender's history.

I don't believe this. Maybe your particular amp had crummy reverb, but I think, in general, this model (drip edge) had excellent reverb.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Oct 2014 8:31 am

No, they only made them Silverface starting in '68 I think. When I say "blackface", I mean changing a few resistors and things around the phase splitter and power tubes to make the circuit just like the blackfaces. In '69 and likely up thru '72 or whenever they stopped making them, CBS did some stupid stuff in there that didn't help the tone. Many people who own these will revert them back to blackface circuit spec's to get the killer tone.

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Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Oct 2014 8:32 am

George, your photo shows what I believe is a 1968. Fender only did that "drip edge" trim around the grillcloth in '68 and maybe the first month or so of '69.

Yours may have had a bum reverb tank, maybe a broken spring, that reverb circuit is exactly identical to any of the other Fenders of the time, Twin, Deluxe, Pro, Super, Vibrolux, Princeton, etc. These are spectacular Fender amps with that famously glorious spring reverb.

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George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Oct 2014 3:07 pm

Yeah Brad, I loved the reverb in my old twin. But the Band Master Reverb I had, was "Springy & noisy". Not sure what it was, but it wasn't the best, for sure. Still was disappointed. It was plenty loud, I never have played loud to speak of. Just not my favorite amp is all. Glad I got shun of it. It was heavy, bulky, didn't fit good in the car, just...ick.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Oct 2014 3:30 pm

Not to double post. But ya know Brad, I wish I had kept all the amps through the years I didn't like. Do you remember any of the old "Magnatone" amplifiers. I had a strange looking two 12" Magnatone Reverb amp. I think it had two 12" Jensen speakers in it. All tube, and it had this like florescent lighted strip across the whole front of the amp, under the knobs that told what each knob did. "Bass, Volume, Treble, Mid" etc. You turn the amp on, and this lighted strip was your pilot light. Was a strange looking thing, but sounded super. I see online that old Magnatone amps are fetching a pretty good penny these days. Just wonder'in....

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Oct 2014 7:25 pm

Oh man oh man, the amps that got away. My list is long and tragic.

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Harry Johansen · Post by **Harry Johansen** » 24 Oct 2014 11:03 pm

I got a Bandmaster blackface 66 model without reverb,lot of headroom,luvit.Forgot to mention I use it With a Telonic 15" speaker.

Philip Sterk · Post by **Philip Sterk** » 25 Oct 2014 8:41 am

I have a 74 Bandmaster TFL 5005D. I had some work done on it and put it in a used Mojotone Vibroverb combo cab with an EPS-15. I'm really happy with it. As always, there is always some tweaking here and there but, its my favorite amp. I own solid state stuff too, but this amp just has a little more tonal character that is perfect for the right gig/song. I think both tube and solid state have there place. Its up to the player to decide where and when to use them...

Here is a blog with a small clip of me testing it the day I picked it up from the repair shop. Pat outlines what he had done to the amp in a nice way.
http://www.maindragmusic.com/blog/category/repairs/

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 27 Oct 2014 6:36 am

I love mine, for steel and guitar- I don't recall the specific year, but it has a silver face. I think the reverb is exceptional. But I'm also in the deluxe reverb camp for psg- haven't played an un-mic'd gig in a long time- the peaveys have been sold.
I've even run a dobro through the first channel (fishman/jd aura) with good results- unorthodox, but a working solution for questionable monitor tones and small car touring.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 27 Oct 2014 12:08 pm

I don't have the reverb version, but two of the standard Bandmaster amps. One is a '66 (blackface) and the other a mid 70's silver face that is slightly "blackfaced" with an adjustable bias added. Ive had the silverface since the 70's as it was one of my first amps. I love them for guitar, but really haven't tried them with steel much. At 45w, its right between a 22w Deluxe and an 85w Twin (with or without the reverb).

Matthew Dawson · Post by **Matthew Dawson** » 31 Oct 2014 10:40 am

I use a 5751 tube in V1 of the reverb side of my Bandmaster Reverb to give it a little more clean headroom. The 5751 has a gain (mu) of 70 vs 100 for a 12AX7. Sounds great!

Also, the bias supply is weird on the Silverface Bandmaster Reverbs. It allows you to balance the bias between the two tubes but gives a lot less control over the overall bias. Changing the bias supply to the standard Blackface style makes it a lot easier to bias the tubes to get the amp sounding good.