Why and How do some Players Become Well known?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 23 Oct 2014 11:49 am

I won't mention any names because some of you may be big fans of them but how do some players become so well known when really they are just mediocre players? Some aren't ever that good. Is it just because some played with a famous band, politics or what? I'm curious as to what some of you think and again, I will not mention any names.

Jeff Scott Brown · Post by **Jeff Scott Brown** » 23 Oct 2014 12:14 pm

Part of the problem with answering a question like "...how do some players become so well known when really they are just mediocre players?" is there is no objective measure of what "mediocre" means.

Since you are specifically avoiding discussing any particular people it is probably impossible to say for sure why the people you have in mind are famous, but there are lots of reasons that folks can become famous and a lot of those reasons are not inconsistent with them being mediocre players in some people's minds. Some people think that Kiss are a mediocre rock band. I happen to agree. There are really good reasons that they are famous though.

Some pedal steel players are famous because they were innovative, which isn't necessarily dependent on them being what most people would consider great players. Some might be famous because they do outrageous things. Some might be famous because they run a steel guitar forum. That is no slight against b0b. I have never even heard him play so I am definitely not taking a stab at his playing, but he could very well be "mediocre" in your mind and still be famous.

This isn't peculiar to pedal steel of course. Wherever Lady Gaga might be on most people's list of most famous performers is almost certainly not consistent with where she would be on their list of best performers.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 23 Oct 2014 12:20 pm

Jeff, some good answers there and that is what I'm looking for. I can't define mediocre but was hoping that some knew what I meant and it's much better than saying they can't play worth a darn.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 23 Oct 2014 12:23 pm

In most cases, it involves a whole lot of hard work, sacrifice and the kind of good professional attitude that makes people want to work with them.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 23 Oct 2014 1:15 pm

Mediocrity can get by for awhile just by being well connected or generally a good person to have in the band, etc. But it's very hard to sustain a career over a long period of time based on mediocre playing.

I completely agree with the posting, but have learned to never publically say anything negative about the playing of others. This is a dangerous topic.

It amazes me that people pile on the praise when there are obvious flaws, i.e., playing out of tune.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 23 Oct 2014 1:24 pm

I agree Paul and I would never run down someone's playing by name or association in any way but there those from the past and present that are always getting praised for unfounded reasons and was wondering other's opinions on this.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 23 Oct 2014 2:07 pm

I'd rather turn that question around and ask "Why do some very good players not become popular"?

I'll bet many of us could name some names that WE think are good enough to deserve popularity. There are those that are good at politicking and then there are those that do it the E f Hutton way. They earn it. Either way you can't hide Talent.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 23 Oct 2014 2:13 pm

I think Greg Leisz is good, but often wished that the "stars" gave an unknown player a chance instead.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 23 Oct 2014 4:57 pm

Politician=someone who works more than you...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Oct 2014 5:14 pm

For the most part, style outsells ability. The great majority of listeners have no formal music training, and so they can't appreciate either a truly good musician, or good music. They know style, though, and they know "different".

They don't really need talent, they want personality, they want a "show", they want spectacle.

Talent will earn you a living, but style can make you rich...in a hurry.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 23 Oct 2014 5:28 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:For the most part, style outsells ability. The great majority of listeners have no formal music training, and so they can't appreciate either a truly good musician, or good music. They know style, though, and they know "different". They don't really need talent, they want personality, they want a "show", they want spectacle.

Talent will earn you a living, but style can make you rich...in a hurry.

Well said.

Roger Dillingham · Post by **Roger Dillingham** » 23 Oct 2014 5:48 pm

I would agree with Donny, and with that point in mind I would have to say that a perfect example in my opinion would be the late Pete Drake. I have seen many on the forum try to "discount" Pete's playing ability and his rank as one of the nation's top steel guitar players ever. I may agree that he may not have been one of the "best" technical players. However, I don't think anyone can argue that he was not one of the most innovative steel players in the business with his ability to create "signature" sounds or licks for the artists he was backing at any particular time. Even before I started my feeble attempt to learn pedal steel guitar I was a big fan of Pete Drake's artistry because of his unique style of adding rather cute and memorable sounds to the recordings to help singers develop their own personality and create certain imaging which would make that singer memorable in the minds of their listeners. As a pedal steel player Pete was not in my mind nearly as good as Emmons, Green, Day, and several others...but as a great player whose genuis and orginality will go down in country music history; IMHO Pete was a giant! Thanks, Roger

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 23 Oct 2014 5:58 pm

I agree with all of the above. A lot of non-musical factors play into it... personality, ease to work with, willingness to travel, reliability, etc. Most big acts are not looking for a star steel player. An average player is fine, as long as he's a team player with the right personality.

Jeff Scott Brown · Post by **Jeff Scott Brown** » 23 Oct 2014 6:24 pm

Paul Sutherland wrote:But it's very hard to sustain a career over a long period of time based on mediocre playing.

Respectfully I disagree and I believe that history backs me up. There are tons of world class top tier musicians who never navigate the path to what most folks would call success, and there are tons of mediocre musicians who achieve stellar success for a variety of reasons. Certainly being a great musician helps but it is neither required nor sufficient for success.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 23 Oct 2014 6:46 pm

There were any number of mediocre players that I used to hear on the Grand Ole Opry and elsewhere and I could never understand how in the world they made it to stardom.

In fact, the one that bugged me most was a REGULARLY featured steel guitarist for a bright Opry star, seemingly each and every week on the Opry and most certainly with each special Opry event.

I understand he was a great individual and he motivated me more than anyone else to play BETTER than him.

Obviously, THAT never occurred because he played until retirement and I never did get there. Hard work and loyalty to his boss likely was a key factor.

As others here have stated, musical creativity and diversity were likely big in his career.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 23 Oct 2014 6:49 pm

Steve Hinson wrote:Politician=someone who works more than you...

Not where I live, and I am on disability and don't work.

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 23 Oct 2014 7:21 pm

I don't think notoriety, fame, or any amount of adoration from fans or groups has anything to do with skill or proficiency. Especially in this day of the internet, one can get instant recognition for a variety of reasons...good and bad. Measuring success is a personal function and sometimes changes, and sometimes ignored. I have developed the theory that a person is on a slippery slope when entertaining thoughts on others, and the time and effort is better spent on my own skills, attitudes and behavior. With that being said..........I have often wondered the same thing Henry.........

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 Oct 2014 7:27 pm

I'm well known because of this web site. People like my playing - I don't think anyone says it's mediocre - but among working steel players I'm about average. No one would know who I am if I hadn't started the Steel Guitar Forum.

There are a number of other players who have also achieved some degree of fame from this forum.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 23 Oct 2014 9:08 pm

You guys got some great answers for my question and Bob, so true that some players have achieved some fame and notoriety because of the forum and can think of several off hand which I think that's great.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 23 Oct 2014 11:15 pm

Playing music is not like sports. Players have different skill sets and musical interests. For example, the ability Pete Drake had to come up with parts that became essential to the song was a skill that set him on a different level than other players.

To judge others based on ones own interests and ability is foolish. Music is much bigger than that.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 23 Oct 2014 11:32 pm

....become so well known....

plays mediocre golf?

Fish · Post by **Fish** » 24 Oct 2014 1:27 am

Greg Leisz is a very special and talented musician on many instruments.
His steel playing speaks to me and many others.

Plus he's an exceptional person.

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 24 Oct 2014 4:20 am

Doug Beaumier said it best:

"A lot of non-musical factors play into it... personality, ease to work with, willingness to travel, reliability, etc."

The above are essential to success, however you define it. In my opinion, regarding those factors, reliability is right up there at the top. Do you do what you say you'll do? When you say you'll do it? Do you show up on time, prepared and looking the best you can? Is negativity a part of your mindset and vocabulary? Do you downplay or criticize other musicians or music? Have you got your parts down before rehearsals? Do you know when to "shutup" when playing? Non-successful players don't. Every one of them.

This is a biggie. As a sideman your #1 goal is to make the song or star sound better. It's not about you. Repeat: It's not about you.

Ken Campbell · Post by **Ken Campbell** » 24 Oct 2014 4:40 am

Fish wrote:Greg Leisz is a very special and talented musician on many instruments.
His steel playing speaks to me and many others.

Plus he's an exceptional person.

I don't know Greg personally. Everything I've ever heard him play, including this latest effort with Bill Frissell has been exceptionally well done and astonishingly tasteful. True measures of musicianship. Not fame.

Kind of a silly topic frankly....

Craig Baker · Post by **Craig Baker** » 24 Oct 2014 4:41 am

Doug and Eric state it very well.

In most employment situations, your job is simply to make your boss look great in the eyes of the company and in turn, make the company look great in the eyes of the public.

If you do that, you can play almost a unremarkably as I do and still keep a job.

Craig

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Why and How do some Players Become Well known?

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