Anyone raising 5th string B a half step

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 27 Feb 2004 8:52 pm

I've often wanted to incorporate a half step raise on my 5th string B on the E9th neck.
I believe Junior Knight and a scant few others use this change.
I'd have to be able to get in and out of it quickly in most cases.
What lever would I hook it to or if I add a lever where is the place to put it?
I use the Emmons set up.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 27 Feb 2004 9:16 pm

I have that on one of my steels. It's on the pedal just to the right of the pedal that raises G# to A (3rd pedal).

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Feb 2004 4:22 am

David C.

It's quite necessary, should a player reach for augmented 7; furthermore, it allows for an accurate half-step raise, which BTW isn't always easy, while playing with a group who frequently play over the steel-breaks.

Bill H.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 28 Feb 2004 4:45 am

Where to put it depends on where you lower your E's to Eb since it has an important function together with that lever.

W an Emmons setup where the E's- Eb is on LKR one place to put the 5&(10) B-C is on LKV but make sure the pivot point of the LKV is to the left of your knee since you would want to play both LKR & LKV together (w/w-out Bpedal). That way it would be easy to go from the A+B (6th chord, str 8 7 6 5 4 3) to a dim-chord Bped + LKV + LKR. If you have a lever on the Right knee that raise 6 G#-A# or on P8 if you have a D10 you would have access to a whole new world of chords on strings 8 7 6 5 4 3 on the E9 neck.

Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 28 February 2004 at 04:46 AM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 28 Feb 2004 6:59 am

I've always just pressed the fifth string half way down. don't that give you a 1/2 tone raise?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 28 Feb 2004 7:01 am

I incorporate this change avery once in a while but I do it by just depressing the pedal part way for a 1/2 tone raise. It's a little tricky but it can be done.
Erv

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 28 Feb 2004 7:09 am

Yes,

I do believe most PSG players simply half pedal the A pedal to get the C note. However, on my U-12, I do have a knee lever that raises it to a C specifically. Only in this case I raise Both B's to C. This is to emulate BE's RKR knee lever on his D-10 (C6) tuning where he raises both C's to C#.

Note: A few players split the A pedal with LKV which lowers the B's to Bb (standard setup) to get the C. In this case you have a solid C note that you do not have to "feel" to get it in tune.

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 28 February 2004 at 07:12 AM.]

Jeff Agnew · Post by **Jeff Agnew** » 28 Feb 2004 9:19 am

I also have this change. It's on my RKL, along with the 1st string raise. I use it instead of the A half-pedal because that would be difficult to hit when you're also using the B pedal and lowering the Es on LKR, as per Bengt's post.

I prefer the big, fat diminished you get with this combination to others found elsewhere.

dlayne · Post by **dlayne** » 28 Feb 2004 11:04 am

What do you pickers think about a half tone stop on the first pedal?,just enough to feel it.Have any of you pickers had this or is it just dumb? I have always went to a half pedal to hit it.

------------------
Dan Layne
videohorn@hotmail.com

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 28 Feb 2004 4:33 pm

I tried a half stop on the "A" pedal once, but I could never feel it. Half pedalling is the way I go.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 29 Feb 2004 6:52 am

Note: A few players split the A pedal with LKV which lowers the B's to Bb (standard setup) to get the C. In this case you have a solid C note that you do not have to "feel" to get it in tune.

I have that KKV on my guitar.
I can also get a D when playin in C by
hitting the KKV only.
[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 29 February 2004 at 06:53 AM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Feb 2004 7:09 am

Surely a significant proportion of E9 players are lowering their 'B's to Bb - with the split-tune on the 'A' pedal, a C note is the result.

I thought this was a trick question when I first read it.....

Bill Stafford · Post by **Bill Stafford** » 29 Feb 2004 8:15 am

My new steel can maneuver the B strings from the B to Bb , back to B then to C to C# and then to D in both the E9 and B6 tunings. Works quite well and with no half stops on any of the pulls.
Bill Stafford

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 29 Feb 2004 9:11 am

Bill,

I would love it if you could post your setup. Thanks in advance dear friend,

carl

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 29 Feb 2004 8:21 pm

Roger,it is a trick question.
I failed to mention that this was with the A pedal down.
I thought about my error after I had rushed out to go to work.
I'd like to be able to raise another half step beyond what the A pedal gives me and hit a C on this single note run.
Sorry for the confusion.
3B-3-1-4-5A..slide up for a C, then back to 5-6-6B
It's a clumsy transition at best.
The notes are G-F#-E-D-C-B-A-F#-G.
I know I could also do this on strings 4,5,6,7,8 using A & B pedals and the E lever.

Bill's setup sounds pretty cool, I'm jealous.[This message was edited by David Cobb on 29 February 2004 at 08:23 PM.][This message was edited by David Cobb on 29 February 2004 at 10:04 PM.][This message was edited by David Cobb on 01 March 2004 at 04:45 PM.]

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 29 Feb 2004 9:44 pm

I raise both the 5th and the 10th to C with LKV3. Since I lower the 4th and 8th to D# with LKL, I cannot use both, so I use the 2nd string D# for the dim. There are a lot of uses for the C on the 5th. I use it with the B pedal for a D9 and Am6. I use it most for E9aug5. The B pedal,LKV2, and LKV3 gives me a C6 with a D (9th string) between the E and C. Lower the D to C# and you have C6/A7. C6, D9, and C6/A7! those are Jerry Bird tunings.

<pre>
E-9th

LKL LKVL LKVC LKVR LKR 1 2 3 4 RKL RKR

1 F# G/G#
2 D# E D/C#
3 G# A
4 E D# F F#
5 B C D C# Bb
6 G# F# A *(G)
7 F# G
8 E D# F
9 D C#
10 B C C#

*(G) This change only works if pedal 1 is pressed. </pre>

[This message was edited by rhcarden on 29 February 2004 at 10:07 PM.][This message was edited by rhcarden on 29 February 2004 at 10:16 PM.][This message was edited by rhcarden on 29 February 2004 at 10:50 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 1 Mar 2004 7:29 am

Wow Rh,

You are intriguing the heck out of me. You have 3 vertical levers between LKL and LKR!!!!!! Wow, I have seen 2, but never three.

I wonder if you would be so kind as to answer a few questions about it:

1. Is LKL and LKR further apart than normal?

2. Have you always had the raising and lowering of the E's opposite to what most do when they use the BE's setup?

3. If so, do you ever have a problem swinging your foot one way and your knee the opposite way?

4. Do you find excessive breakage on your 5th string, since you are raising it a tone and a half?

5. How in blueblazes to you accomplish the following:

*(G) This change only works if pedal 1 is pressed.

Finally, I love your changes. I have probably seen every conceivable copedent out there, but yours is one I have NOT seen. I would love to see the underside of your guitar. I commend you for your creative mind.

May Jesus continue to nurture your creativity and bless you always,

carl

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 1 Mar 2004 4:35 pm

Thanks Carl!
I'll try to answer your questions.

1. The LKL and LKR are spaces normal except for allowing room for the LKR to move left when lowering the 5th string to Bb. That's normal for a P/P. The LKR is set back far enough to allow the LKV3 to be in front of it. It's also out of the way when moving to the C6 pedals.

2. I have always lowered the E's with the LKL When new, the guitar only had 2 knee levers. RKR has always raised the 4th string E to F#. The LKV1 raises the E's to F and this is what allows me to have the 3 verticals. On a P/P guitar the raises over ride the lowers making it possible to press both LKL and LKV1 levers and get F's. Release the LKV1 and the F's drop to Eb's without stoping at E.

3. I do have a problem with swinging my foot. I have the pedal travel as short as possible. My left heel is usualy off the floor.

4. I do break the 5th string sometimes. Not often, if I change strings when I should. It's about the same as the 3rd string!

5. This is another P/P thing where the raises over ride the lowers. When the 6th string is lowered to F# the pull rod for the B pedal moves with the lower. I just pull it back to G with a bellcrank tuner on RKL. If the 6th string is not lowered, it does nothing.

You don't want to see the bottom of my guitar. It's a mess! I have 7 Knee levers that were made with a hack saw and file.

------------------
Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7