Guitar sounds muddy

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 6 Apr 2014 12:38 am

Hi
I got my MCI for close to six month.
Recently It seam to lose the higher frequencies, I thought it was the amp (Vibrolux Reverb), but I got similar results plugging it directly to a sound card or to a different amp.
The pickup is a George L's E-66.
I've also tried bypass the volume pedal(Carter Starter's),which changed the sound just a little.
So what you think can cause this kind of problem?
Thanks!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 6 Apr 2014 1:22 am

I'd check all the solder connections.
I have a friend whose Carter would intermittently lose volume and tone.
Stupid question: have you tried alternate cables?

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 6 Apr 2014 1:27 am

Thanks Lane. I have tried different cables.
What should I look for on the soldering, just if everything is connected or more than that?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 6 Apr 2014 1:59 am

Look for cracks or signs of corrosion. I've heard that milky rather than shiny solder is a sign of fail.
If you have time, solder, iron and flux, I'd redo them all, cleaning all lugs and cutting off any corroded wire.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 6 Apr 2014 3:13 am

You're right Lane, dull gray can mean a bad joint. Shiny and smooth is what you want.

Also, sometimes when people strip a wire, they will nick the wire itself, resulting in a compromised wire with many strands cut, and possibly a wire breaking later.

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 6 Apr 2014 4:51 am

When was the last time you changed strings?

h

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 6 Apr 2014 6:41 am

Howard, I've changed strings about a month ago. The problem started while the strings where new.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 6 Apr 2014 7:42 am

Check that your pickup height has not changed.

Look for any loose mechanical things underneath.

Play the guitar unlplugged (in a quiet room)... do you hear the tone you're missing? You need to isolate the loss of tone to either electrical, electronic, or mechanical problems.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 6 Apr 2014 7:46 am

Rani,

I'm not trying to be comical but, I find that a lot. I usually change amps for a while, then go back later and it's fine. I think it's hearing more than anything with the guitar or amp.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Apr 2014 7:52 am

Since the problem started after new strings were put on, I would change them and put another new set on. The "new" strings could have went dead prematurely.

I had that happen to a new set. I put new strings on the day before and a friend, that was visiting a relative here in Florida, dropped in. He wanted to play my Franklin. I let him play it and after he left I noticed the strings were mostly dead. I later found out he had the "sweaty palm" syndrome and apparently that is what caused to the 1 day old strings to go dead.

Considering, again, that it happened after new strings were installed I would rule out a bad connection in the guitar wiring.

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 8 Apr 2014 1:53 am

Thanks to everyone who replied!
It seem like it can be one of the options you've suggested or a combinations of a few.
I'll have to redo the soldering of the pickup, because it doesn't look as good as it should.
As for the strings, when I put them I wasn't quite happy with the sound and they seem to take long to stabilize. The set is Live Steel Strings, standard nickel. Before that I put a Curt Mangan set that Jerry Roller sent me with the guitar and I was happy with them.
But the tone problem felt deeper than just a dull/old strings, I did what Stephen suggested and played it unplugged, and it doesn't sound as muddy as when amplified, but I could be wrong here.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Apr 2014 7:19 am

I'll bet the strings you had on prior to the Live Steel strings were stainless. The present nickel strings won't sound as crisp.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 8 Apr 2014 7:32 am

Exactly, Erv! Although with E66 pickups you'd think nickle would be plenty bright enough.

One other thing to investigate: There is a pull brite on the first volume knob of most amps. I dialed in my tone with the bright switch on (pulled out), and my kids must have bumped it to off, and it threw me for a loop.

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 8 Apr 2014 7:38 am

Erv, These are the previous string set.
Of course, I have checked the bright knob, Tom.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Apr 2014 7:40 am

My bad!

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 8 Apr 2014 12:14 pm

This may be a long shot, but everything else seems to have been covered. Have you tried turning the pots on the amp individually while a signal is going through it? Sometimes dirt will cause a loss of volume and clarity and can be cleared up with a couple of rotations.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 8 Apr 2014 1:10 pm

Corrosion on the output jack contacts??? Builds a capacitance, sucks highs..maybe your pickup has lost its mojo? I don't want to go to the amp, because you explained you tested with soundcards, etc...but it is a tube amp, and all kinds of crap can happen with those.

In spite of changing cords, etc, you could have 10 cords that rob highs and one that doesn't do it as bad...cord selection is sooo important to a steel guitar and amp, and don't underestimate the impact of the amp's input impedance...it will dull things down pronto if its not very high...unless you have a active buffer as close to the output jack as possible there are huge losses in fidelity. Get as short a cord as possible, and start there.

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 15 Oct 2014 12:55 am

I kinda think it is the pickup that has lost its mojo/highs.
I heard the E-66 are supposed to have a bright tone especially, is that true?
Is there a way to check a pickup other than plugging it into an amp/board etc. ?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 15 Oct 2014 2:39 am

If you have a multimeter, check the resistance of the pickup. It should be between 18,000 and 20,000 ohms.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 15 Oct 2014 8:04 am

If you don't have the George L cables, I recommend that you get them. They just don't loose the highs like most other cables. 2nd. I recommend that you try a Lil Izzy. You have nothing to loose. Craig Baker will refund your money if you don't like it. Going to Low Z right at the guitar with the Lil Izzy will keep you from loosing the highs before the signal gets to the amp.

These are only suggestions if the strings or something else is not the problem. I think you should get the George L's at any rate. If there is a pickup, strings, or connection problem somewhere, then these things may only help a little, if at all.

And don't forget to bypass the volume pedal and all other devices and plug the guitar straight into the amp.

Good luck and let us know the final outcome.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 15 Oct 2014 10:09 am

PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR HIGHJACKING THIS POST

Hey, Bill Duncan. I am so glad to see that you are still in circulation. I have been sending you e-mails and PM's for three weeks concerning the Valve King speaker that you were going to let me have. Since I have had no response from you, I am assuming that you are not getting my PM's and emails or that I am not getting yours, so I am highjacking a post here in hopes that you will read it and let me know the status of the speaker shipment. You can call me at (423) 342-6233.

Hope to hear from you soon. I need to move on replacing the speaker that the mouse ate.

Thanks, Bill

George

Rani Platek · Post by **Rani Platek** » 16 Oct 2014 2:27 am

Thanks Lane and George, I'll try to get the ohm measured first then we'll see.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Oct 2014 7:45 am

If you're using a pot pedal, reverse the cords at the volume pedal. If the pedal is hooked up backwards, you'll get nothing but soggy mush from the guitar.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 16 Oct 2014 8:48 pm

Rani, have you measured the pickup to see what the ohm reading is? Of course I am feeling bad because I sold you the guitar. Is there anything I can do to help? Please let me know what is wrong when you figure it out.
Jerry

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 16 Oct 2014 9:28 pm

Jerry, I bet the problem lies elsewhere. Guitars don't typically lose their tone

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