questions about playing in a duo

Todd Pertll · Post by **Todd Pertll** » 11 Feb 2004 9:12 am

I have recently started playing with a singer/songwriter, and rather than use a whole band we have decided to remain a duo. He on guitar/harmonica/and vocals. Me on pedal steel/and guitar.

My question is what is the best way to approach this type of gig? I have never really heard the pedal steel in this context and am wondering what kinds of things should I do or not do to keep the music interesting.

Also, could you recommend any recordings to check out that showcase this type of playing?

Any suggestions would be helpful.

thanks,
Todd[This message was edited by Todd Pertll on 11 February 2004 at 09:14 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 11 Feb 2004 9:16 am

Just play your best and stay out of the way of the vocals and you'll be fine. The best duo I ever heard was at Scotty's Convention the year Lloyd Green was inducted. Ricky Skaggs was there that year and after the induction it was just Lloyd on Steel and Ricky on his acoustic Martin guitar. It was some of the best music I've heard in my life. It was all clean and pure and the crowd loved it....Have a good 'un...JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 11 Feb 2004 9:34 am

Todd, you have reminded me a night several years ago that my wife and I stopped to spend the night in a Holiday Inn in New Mexico.

During the evening, I left our room to go to the lobby for some snacks, and on the way down the hall I heard a great sounding band coming from the Motel Club that I had to go inside to check out. They were doing a mixture of rock and country.

To my surprise, it was a band consisting of only two musicians. There was the vocalist who played rhythm guitar and bass with a hammond organ footpedal board and also conrolled the drum machine, and another musician who played a Fender 1000 with a guitar fretboard attached to the outside neck.

They also had a bank of electronics that wouldn't be very impressive today, but sure was back in the 1980's. They sounded like a hard driving five piece band.

I was so impressed that I went back to our room and had my wife get dressed so we could go back to the club and listen.

But back to your initial question....yes, two musicians can do the job!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 11 February 2004 at 09:37 AM.]

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 11 Feb 2004 11:16 am

We sure weren't Lloyd and Ricky, but I played a steady bar gig like that for years. The singer/guitar-harmonica player played bass lines and strummed rhythm on a deep, boomy D-45, while my steel usually occupied the middle and upper registers, along with his harmonica. The three instruments blended well, but didn't step on each other at all. I usually used very little reverb, but often used a phase shifter, a la Sneaky Pete (well, it was the 80s!). We'd crank up both effects on something like "The Wreck of the Edmund B. Fitzgerald" and really rock the joint. It was really a very versatile format.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 11 Feb 2004 12:29 pm

Learn to play steel with your guitar hanging around your neck. An A+B box might be an opition. I do this using a Pro-fex and a midi program changer to toggle between steel sounds & guitar sounds. Works good for me. I can play steel AND guitar during the course of any song if I want. Some guys might want to use 2 amps, but I like to have the volume pedal on both instruments. Also, I learned to play guitar pretty well with finger picks on. When I really need to "get down" on the guitar, I'll take off the picks. It's this doubling that has kept me working steadily for years.

Gary Jones · Post by **Gary Jones** » 11 Feb 2004 12:47 pm

I played in several situations like this in my musical career, and it was a different situatation every time. It depends on what musical direction you want to take, and what the abilities of the musicians involved are.
To my mind the definitive recorded example of a duo is "And The hits Just Keep On Coming" by Mike Nesmith. Mike on guitar and vocals, and Red Rhodes on steel.

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 11 Feb 2004 1:08 pm

I second what Gary said. Mike Nesmith's "And The Hits Just Keep On Comin" album was just him and Red Rhodes. Awesome.

Joe

Tom Althoff · Post by **Tom Althoff** » 11 Feb 2004 2:20 pm

Me three for Nesmiths "Hits". Its my favorite Nez album. Tropical Campfires gets a vote for 2nd place.

It's amazing what two can do!

If there is anyone who's never heard "And the hits just keep on comin'" I have an extra copy here that you can listen to. Drop me an e-mail and I'll send it out. It's free for the asking.

Todd Pertll · Post by **Todd Pertll** » 11 Feb 2004 2:45 pm

Eric Heywood is one of my favorite players, and I know he has toured with Richard Buckner in the duo format, but I've never seen the show. Also I think that Eric has done something similar with Jay Farrar. Has anyone seen these shows? What were your thoughts?

Tom Althoff · Post by **Tom Althoff** » 11 Feb 2004 2:52 pm

Todd e-mailed me first...he gets the CD.

Thanks to all who played "Who wants a free CD?"

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 11 Feb 2004 4:48 pm

Now that you mention it, we had a duo called of all things, "the Two Bads".

I played guitar and Gibson Elcectra-Harp , sang a few songs, and also harmony with Harry Clark.

He played Bass, sang and MC'd. We had a good duo, played for a couple of years 6 nights a week and packed the place every place we went and every night.

We played all the pop standards of the day, that was in 1950, and a mixture of all style of songs.

A few years later Harry went to Vegas and played with Buzz Evans for awhile. He was a great entertainer and a good bassman.

Duos cam make good money and get a lot of jobs.....Although I would prefer a larger band...al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 11 February 2004 at 06:17 PM.]

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 11 Feb 2004 8:22 pm

Hi Todd,

Just as a little aside; we play each Saturday afternoon at a paid jam as a duo, my partner plays his Takamini box set pretty deep along with a drum machine, he recently got himself a harmoniser unit which has its shortcomings but all in all it works out fine leaving the night for our usual trio.

There can be some really nice voicings with just the two of you plus the volume can be kept at a more peacefull acceptable level.

Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs. and other sweet things.

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 14 Feb 2004 2:10 am

This is a little off the subject but coulden't resist.To my ears the most beautiful thing i ever heard was back in the 60's in Nashville at the Black Poodle.George Morgan sang Danny Boy with no back up except Curly Chalker on Steel.George didn't even play his guitar.I told George he should record it like that with only him and Curly.He told me he had planned on it but Ray Price had it coming out at that time.So some one will probably recall what year this was.I know Chalker and Mc Coy did Danny boy later and was great,but have wished many a time i had had a tape recorder with me.I do have a tape cassett of a jam session made in Las Vegas with Curly Chalker and another great steel player,Bob Hines.Does any one remember Bob,and if so know if he is still living,etc.Last time i saw him he was running a music store in Denver.This was probably 30 years ago.I sent a copy to Bobbe Seymore some time back but of course the quality is not good enough to put on a cd.Geez,what pleasat memories.Tracy

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 15 Feb 2004 3:47 pm

Hi, Todd. In between regular full band gigs, I've been really enjoying playing Steel and Dobro in a duo with my friend Joe Kirkpatrick. I would say you have to approach the music with fresh ears, and try whatever seems to fit the song and style. Perhaps more keyboardy pads, or lines that support and compliment whatever you partner's playing. It helps to have great songs- in my case Joe's great singing and playing skills make it great fun. We also make more than we often would in a larger band, and sell a bunch of CDs as well! Email me and I'll send you a copy of our "version 1.0" Demo. or visit: http://www.theplanetriders.com/

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 15 Feb 2004 7:21 pm

Todd,

Depending on the situation I have a few things that seem to work with duos.

I lay out for considerable periods of time in order to make what I do play more significant.

I double signature riffs or bass string runs that the guitar player is playing.

I pad the chorus and then play a counter melody in the verse. I try to make the chorus sound noticably different from the verse.

I'll play low drones on open strings for one verse and then harmonics on the next.

I base what I'm playing on the story of the song and if the song is a well written story type song I will acentuate the important lyric (that tends to show up towards the 3rd verse) by setting up and then laying out for that sentence only.

Don't play too many bendy or slid notes. They can draw the ears of the listener away from the vocal.

Comping on the steel constantly can sound just as bad as violin players that comp all the time.

Bob

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 15 Feb 2004 8:16 pm

I played in duos for years when I lived on the central coast. I loved it. It was a great challenge and truly 'a way to survive' when the best venues were restaurants and coffee houses.

Playing wise, especially on ballads, I would usually find myself landing on string 7, both with pedals open or down. It kind of gave the songs an unresolved, plaintiff kind of sound, which the front-person generally found irresistable.

You will only learn by experience, and you will know quickly what works. I would always get a nasty look whenever I hit a country lick, so you have to be able to play stuff other than country. Play atmospheric, learn about ambience, and don't use generic country licks on songs that aren't country.

[This message was edited by Rich Weiss on 15 February 2004 at 08:20 PM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 17 Feb 2004 11:37 am

Hi again, Todd, one of the places we play with our duo (Rodi, Gastonia NC) has a clip of one of our songs on their website. Very dark video quality, but the sound's good, so you can hear my approach. (to this song anyway!) http://www.rodiworld.com/the_planet_riders.htm Let me know what you think!

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 18 Feb 2004 12:40 am

Yet another plug for Nesmith/Rhodes "And The Hits Just Keep on Coming"

Also, Red Simpson (keyboard/guitar) and Larry Petree (pedal steel) are (or at least were a few months ago) playing as a duo at least once a week at Trouts just outside Bakersfield.
And on the acoustic side, there is a great album whose name I completely forget by Peter Rowan and Jerry Douglas...
Nick

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 26 Feb 2004 5:28 pm

I would vote also for the Nesmith/Rhodes duo.
I think "Roll with the Flow" pretty much nailed what the two could do together.
Great stuff.
Lefty.
Dekley D-10
Sho-Bud LDG
Dobro Resophonic

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 26 Feb 2004 6:05 pm

Has anybody had any experience with just a piano and a steel, specifically at church? To complicate matters, our piano player has no experience playing anything except solo. He doesn't leave any holes for fills and he and the organist both play the same melody simultaneously right out of the same book. I have about decided it would be a bad idea to join in and if I want to play, just do it to rhythm tracks. I can hear a train wreck coming.