Best & Easiest Digital Recorder?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 May 2007 6:55 am

Dennis, first off, in the digital domain there is insignificant signal loss if any at all, it isn't like the old analog days where each new dub results in a bunch of signal degradation (3db loss range). Digital is a copy / paste world.

here's some basic principles:

http://www.digital-recordings.com/publ/pubrec.html

Secondly, research..

Go to each of the Music Store internet sites, search what they have and then go to the manufacturers websites for detailed product descriptions. Generally they all have the operators manuals in PDF form so you can SEEK and READ before a purchase.

Boss, Tascam, Fostex, Zoom, that should get you started...

happy hunting

tp

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 13 May 2007 8:18 am

Thanks Tony, I'll have to do some research into the capabilities of each recorder. I was hoping someone on the forum may already have or previously had certain models and turn me off of or onto a particular model.
I wasn't detailed enough when I said "dubbing". I was refering to dubbing in a correction in a measure of a song. Example: a wrong passage played on steel in one measure...so going back and dubbing (maybe the correct word is "overdubbing"?)in that measure. If you already have delay recorded into that track and wish to dub a different measure, the beginning of the measure and end of the measure is going to be more critical in getting the exact delay (effect) to blend at those two points in the measure. If the track is recorded without effects (dry), I think the newly inserted measure will not be so critical and blend better if effects are added later in the final mix. Or maybe not? Hence, my concern for being able to add external effects to each track on the final mix. Sounds like, possibly, this aspect to being able to get a good quality recording on the more basic models might be the hitch?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 May 2007 12:36 pm

Dennis, what you are saying is why many add effects at the end.

Dubbing or punching in is not an issue with any of these units, hi end or low end.

Also , the effects patches found on most units are pretty good. Over the past few years, using two or three units, I can't recall when I had to go OFF BOARD to get a patch I wanted to use other than PITCH correction .

I worked with a simple Boss BR-8 for about two years, it did a fine job and it is not feature packed, but has enough to get the job done. I fed to an external device from the stereo send, then back to the input. As long as all other channels were muted all was fine. To do this though you need an empty track to record to.

16 is better, 24 is better than 16..and so on...

good luck

tp

Jim Eller · Post by **Jim Eller** » 13 May 2007 4:06 pm

For what it's worth...

I just purchased the Tascam 2488MKII.

When I opened the box a week ago I knew as much about it as I do about how to do open heart surgery.

I can now record multi tracks, both at the same time or individually. For me, that's an accomplishment. I just take it slow and read the manual and it works. The hardest part is, the glossary of terms used are mostly new to me.

Jim

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 14 May 2007 8:36 am

I like my Roland VS, but I don't think anyone could call it "easy to use". I've been using Roland VS recorders for nearly a decade now and I still don't understand a lot of the features.

-I hated mine and certainly wouldnt call it easy to use. That tiny lcd screen with the cryptic symbols and pressing ten buttons just to EQ something..blah. I need to sell it as Ive converted to software (TRacktion 2 soon to be 3) and will nevr go back to hardware. 8 track with Box manual and power supply, zip discs, barely used....$100..if anyone wants it after that stellar review i just gave it...

Jim, i think you made an excellent choice on the tascam. They are known for their ease of use and one button per function interfaces. Have fun and make some good music!

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 14 May 2007 9:18 am

I have a Tascam 2488. Sounds good and easy to use.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 6 Jun 2007 3:45 am

Software is inexpensive , and VERY feature filled for the money ...A lot of times the PC is not all that friendly as it has a lot of conflicts with other programs because people just don't normally dedicate a PC to ONLY music ... I do, and have far less errors ....Hardware is easier to use, and you have hands on, rather than mouseing around ...I use both, but for a hardware recorder, I use an Akai DPS24 which I researched the other brands, and went on their forums to see what folks had to say ...I was pleasantly surprised to go on the Akai DPS24 forum and everyone was getting along, and helping each other, and most everything on the machine worked as written ...I went to the Roland forum , and there was a lot of hair pulling , so I opted away from the VS gear ... The Yamaha stuff was somewhat tedious ...The Tascam gear looked OK for the money , but was not as feature rich as what I was looking for ...The DPS24 ( now Mk II ) has EVERYTHING from soup to nuts !!...Automated and powered faders like a pro board, effects, great eq, and even allows you to make a CD at the end of it all...It's very easy to use compared to other units..The cost is over $2,000, but you have it all at your fingertips from start to finish ...Plug in some powered monitors, or get a good set of head phones, and you're all set !!...Jim

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 6 Jun 2007 11:00 am

I like the Roland VS 2480 We did two projects in less than a year on on the VS and one on ADAT Both were good but I actually liked the sound of the VS better. Had a little bit of warmth the ADAT didn'thave. I also like the VS because I came from a software format and the VS can adapt a large pc screen. Software recording was to much of a hassle concerning the pc not the program. I have worked on vegas, cool edit,didgital performer, and protools. Protools was the best folowed by digital performer for ease of use. Course they were both on Macs and the others were on windows. I know they are all challenging but to me sound is the best. I can learn to use something. It's all what you want.

Buddy Lewis · Post by **Buddy Lewis** » 6 Jun 2007 11:17 pm

I have two Korg D1600's that I started out with. I can use them in sync and get 32 tracks. Mainly I use the second one for backup. Never had to use it so far. It has about everything you could ask in one and is super reliable and quiet. Built in effects coverers just about everything. But from there, I take the tracks over to the computer to edit and mix and master the individual tracks. The best of both worlds.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 24 Sep 2014 11:54 am

Seven years on, how are people finding the various different methods of recording?

I started back in the 50s with a Ferguson Mono open-reel machine, then progressed to a Ferrograph 631H, again open reel mono, but worked at 15 ips. When I could afford it I bought the stereo version, the 632H.
It was too heavy to transport to California when I moved from England, so in 1980 I bought one of the new cassette Portastudios. I went through several versions of them until I came to the Tascam 388 Studio 8 machine, an open-reel 8-channel machine which was basically a Portastudio working with open reel tapes. A magnificent machine. I now have two of them.

The great thing about these machines was that I could concentrate on my music, not become a recording and computer engineer.

With the advent of computers I tried various software but the problem was always the same; few computers could handle the data without fallout, or without stopping in the middle of a number to refresh its memory. Dedicated hard drive recorders seemed the answer, because a hard disk recorder is basically a tape recorder that does nothing but records and plays back, so you won't exceed its computing capabilities.

The problem was that you run out of hard disk space and had to continually download and reload. The answer was the Data MiniDisk recorders, and I now have eight Yamaha MD8s. Very easy to use. They're basically a tape recorder that uses minidisks. So you can work on several projects, and just slip the disks in and out when you change from one to the other.

But I wanted to add use more than 8 tracks, so I bought a Fostex VF-16 Hard Disk Recorder and a Tascam 2488 24-channel Hard Disk Recorder. They've stood unused for many years and I'm still using minidisks. That's because you have to watch a 45 minute video to learn how to use them. There are so many variables that setting them up you need to be a studio engineer. (O for the "push two buttons to record" of the old stereo tape recorders.) Having effects built in just adds to the confusion. In the old days your continuous-tape echo units were outside of the recorder and you could set them up separately and leave them that way. I've added the monitor output card to the 2488, but that just enlarges the small display on the recorder, and doesn't help much. I would like to be able to plug the machine into a computer and download all 24 channels at a time, but I don't have any way of doing that. The Fostex VF-16 has a SCSI2 output, but I haven't had a computer with a SCSI card for years. I guess a I could output information via the SCSI socket to my Fostex RD-8 DAT Recorder, but that would only be 8 of the channels. If I'm only going to use 8 channels I can stick with minidisks.

I wish they made a 16 channel Minidisk recorder.

Timothy Foster · Post by **Timothy Foster** » 24 Sep 2014 1:43 pm

As an early adopter of "in-the-box" computer recording 15 years or so ago, I can empathize with the frustration of having that perfect take ruined by a crash... The constant search for system stability, and the constant chase for more processing power to perform relatively simple tasks. I had a dedicated server-class rackmount computer, cooling fans blaring in the control room, enough heat to cook an egg on... latency and routing difficulties anytime you wanted to use a piece of outboard, the learning curves and loss of tactile feel... All of that seemed a fair bit of compromise at the time, compared to a purpose-built standalone unit which simply worked -- be it ADAT, harddisk, minidisk, cassette or reel-to-reel...

But it's come a long way and while it's not in the spirit of this thread, I gotta say I could never go back to a dedicated box. The editing flexibility is limitless, and the hardware far less intrusive. Nowadays I run everything on a little MacBook Pro -- 16 channels of I/O with zero latency monitoring, plenty of horsepower and no issues integrating outboard for tracking or mixing.

Even my outboard has shrunk -- sold all the rack gear I accumulated while using dedicated recorders and bought into the smaller API 500 series footprint. Everything now sits in a little corner of the room, instead of sprawling racks of gear and cables under foot. Don't get me wrong -- I love racks o' stuff, mountains of gear, piles of cables. But my current kinder/gentler setup has allowed me to infiltrate the main floor of our house without the wife chasing me back down to the basement!!!

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 24 Sep 2014 2:48 pm

Timothy Foster wrote:...my current kinder/gentler setup has allowed me to infiltrate the main floor of our house without the wife chasing me back down to the basement!!!:D ...

...and she lets you play drums in the living room.

You have a very understanding wife. She sounds like a keeper.

I'm still stuck in the basement. I record most of my music with headphones wherever I can. Fortunately, my wife is a teacher and I'm retired, so I can record during the day while she's out, and mix down through headphones in the evening. I look forward to the end of the summer holidays every year, with the neighborhood kids back in school and not making noise.

You've hit the nail on the head with what you said about having a disk crash and losing hours of work. That only happened to me once, and I said to myself, "This never happened with tape. Even the jam session tapes that we made in the 60s still play as well as they did when they were recorded."
I did have one bad minidisk a few years back. That's one of the reasons I have multiple minidisk consoles; I have one permanently set up for mixdown, from where the snake goes via a limiter/compressor into another minidisk console set up to record, and I back up everything.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 24 Sep 2014 3:39 pm

That's really a beautiful home studio, Tim. Nicer than any I've seen.

Timothy Foster · Post by **Timothy Foster** » 25 Sep 2014 6:28 am

Yeah -- she's a keeper Alan, but there's a definite threshold for drum tolerance... I've stuck my toe out across that line before and limped back, never to cross it again!

If I'm totally honest with myself, I'd probably get a lot more accomplished with a setup closer to yours... I often get way too to wrapped up in the minutia of sounds and editing, easily lured into the weeds instead taking advantage of those rare creative moments and actually making music.

And thanks for the kind words b0b. The pics really do it more justice than reality... It's a smaller space in person, but it suits me and I'm grateful to be able to make a bit of noise again. We bought this place about two years ago, as our tiny townhouse became very cramped once our first son was born... The previous owner was an avid reader and had a small library built out -- shelving, sliding ladder, the whole deal. While I can appreciate that, as soon as I saw the room my one-track-mind immediately screamed "Studio!!!" Initially there were 186 shelves... When we moved in my wife simply handed me a can of Pledge, a dustrag, and said: have fun!

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 25 Sep 2014 9:51 am

Back in the sixties I had a home recording studio which just consisted of two reel-to-reel machines, one floor-standing mike, and two old Grampian mikes that I hung from hooks in the ceiling. In that setup we had constant jam sessions. There were some regulars, whom I still meet and play with them each year when I go home for a visit, and a constant stream of visitors of various talents, from professionals to complete beginners. Volumes were controlled by how far I placed people from the microphones. Most of the time it was all-acoustic, and that prevented wiring problems. I had no idea of who was going to turn up, and, since we played all sorts of music, who was going to bring what instruments, so I had some juggling to do, like the day a lute player and a saxophonist turned up at the same session. But we had a lot of fun, and we concentrated on the music, not on the recording.
Tape was expensive in those days, but some of the most interesting recordings came when I just left the recorder on for hours and edited the tape down later. The editing was cutting and splicing with a razor blade, of course.

Steven Meyrich · Post by **Steven Meyrich** » 30 Sep 2014 11:02 am

Tim: I would be interested in what software you are using on the Macbook and any other info you would care to share thanks.

Timothy Foster · Post by **Timothy Foster** » 1 Oct 2014 12:39 pm

Hi Steven,

Since I switched to the Mac (about 3 years ago) I've been using Presonus' Studio One software along with a Steinberg MR816 Firewire interface. The latter has 8 channels of balanced analog I/O and an additional 8 channels accessible via ADAT lightpipe. Making use of the extra digital I/O requires separate AD/DA converters; I have some Panasonic "WZ" series converters connected here to get me to 16 channels total.

Prior to this setup I was running Nuendo/Cubase on a desktop PC with an older RME Hammerfall interface and UAD DSP processing card. My current system is much faster, quieter and more stable than the old environment. By today's standards even my MacBook is a bit dated, but it still provides plenty of horsepower. Bear in mind I've been relying less on plugins and "virtual instruments" and doing more processing with outboard -- so my CPU overhead may not be as high as some folks... and I still record at 44.1kHz/24bit sample rates -- jumping up to 96kHz would double the load on the CPU and harddisk. But I dare say any modern system is more than up to the task for all but the most demanding users.

I was somewhat worried about moving to a Firewire interface -- I'd heard plenty of horror stories where the resulting systems were riddled with latency and bandwidth problems... I also wondered if the typically slower laptop harddrive speeds could keep up with 16 channels of incoming audio... figured I'd have to buy into a separate HD or SSD, but so far it's been smooth sailing in stock form.

Other than that, just some pre's, EQ's and compressors stuffed into API "lunchbox" racks. Everything is wired via two patchbays, so I can patch preamp chains directly into the interface while tracking, or setup send/return loops to access outboard while mixing. Here's an older pic of what's in those racks -- some things have come and gone since then (Chandler Little Devil EQ's are a more recent acquisition, they ROCK!):

Steven Meyrich · Post by **Steven Meyrich** » 1 Oct 2014 12:48 pm

Tim: thank you for the information and congrats on a super setup. I am trying to decide on moving on from Garageband and my Apogee Duet so much to learn!

Steven Meyrich · Post by **Steven Meyrich** » 1 Oct 2014 12:49 pm

I also admire the glass desk you have - car to share the maker of model?

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 1 Oct 2014 1:32 pm

Hey, Tim, we've all had guitars that were better suited as firewood but usually not Fenders!

Timothy Foster · Post by **Timothy Foster** » 2 Oct 2014 11:48 am

Bill Sinclair wrote:Hey, Tim, we've all had guitars that were better suited as firewood but usually not Fenders!

...The Fender's are mostly safe despite their proximity, but I gotta tell ya... there have been some frustrating days trying to improve my lap steel chops where it's been a close call!

As for that desk Steve, I can't figure out the manufacturer for the life of me -- no markings on it whatsoever. It was a very lucky score, got it for $20 at a corporate liquidation auction!

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Best & Easiest Digital Recorder?

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