Introducing New Knee Lever Concept

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Feb 2004 9:01 am

One equals two is the new concept!
Yes, I mean to say that 2 knee levers can provide the same changes as the standard 4 levers setup of the E9th tuning! I have gone over the concept, and have envisioned the necessary arrangement, of how the exemplary unit would function. I will build the 2 in one, as an added feature on my new C6th steel guitar. If the action is smooth, I would enjoy reporting the good news, on this forum.

Bill H.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Feb 2004 9:05 am

You're such a tease, Bill!

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 19 Feb 2004 9:21 am

I am glad to see someone is still thinking on how to improve the functionality of our Pedal Steel Guitars. Bill , always seems to come up with something.

Ed Fulawka has put on his guitars two rods on the back end of his guitar(you pull out) to make the two right knee levers switch from E9 to C6 , so you have the effect of 4 knee levers with only the pressure of two.Ask Ricky Davis about his.
I would like that on my D10.....
Thanks for the post , bill.......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 19 February 2004 at 09:23 AM.]

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 19 Feb 2004 9:48 am

I saw Ed's steel with this feature @ St Louis
once. Good feature! Need more inovations in our world of steel guitar! Too much copy catting. Is that a word? I'll ask Bobbe.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 19 Feb 2004 10:08 am

Bill, can you get my 6 knee levers to do what 12 levers would do?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Feb 2004 11:18 am

Earnest B.,

I think a Swiss watchmaker could make light work of most endeavors, relating to complicated add-ons. The compact nature of the steel guitar's cabinet, limits the use of standard hardware. If a person brimming with zeal, should decide that the current hardware, could be scaled down, your intuitive inquiry, may reveal that virtually most mechanical problems are resolvable.

Bill H.

Ken Frazier · Post by **Ken Frazier** » 19 Feb 2004 11:45 am

Doesn't Bobbe Seymour already have something similar with his Z lever setup?
Just wondering
Ken Frazier

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Feb 2004 1:11 pm

Ken F.,

If he has more than two knee levers on his, then we are talking apples and oranges. I propose to fascilitate changes made possible, by eliminating two knee levers. If someone who is familiar with Bobbe's Z lever, would approach the lectern, and reveal what he has beneath his steel, it would be easy to answer your question.

Bill H.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Feb 2004 1:20 pm

..that sounds vaguely perverted, Bill...

(just trying to introduce a little controversy, to help your topic along

)

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 19 Feb 2004 2:33 pm

Bill,

Here are a couple of links to previous posts discussing Bobbe's "Z" Lever concept.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003964.html
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004867.html

Respectfully,
Dave Burr

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Feb 2004 3:45 pm

Dave B.,

I clicked on the 1st thread that you submitted. When I reached the part where certain sacrifices were made, I knew that what I have in mind, is very much unrelated to Bobbe's setup. I've had a pedal on my steel that actuates the changing of 4 different tones, that I use for shuffle intros. Bobbe's Z setup resembles that pedal's action. To repeat the strongest objection that surfaces upon viewing the preliminary basics, of Bobbe's setup, is, and I must emphasize, that giving up the E-F change is not ever going to happen. I don't believe that I've misconstrued the information in the designated thread. Thanks for the information.

Bill H.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 19 Feb 2004 3:49 pm

Bill - I am intersted in hearing more about the pedal you refer to in the post previous to this. Perhaps you could start a different topic for that subject.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 19 Feb 2004 7:47 pm

Yes, Bill. Please do......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Feb 2004 11:30 pm

Lee B.,

I have a tight cluster of 6 pedals, setup on the E9th steel. Five knee levers, with foam cushioning, provide the "soft" touch at the knees. The A&B pedals are reversed, and the 4th and 8th strings, half tone changes, are both at my left knee.
The "BA" pedals are surrounded by two average length pedals, and two short pedals tucked slightly above, and mounted behind the the BA changes. The pedal that I made reference to previously, could be used in the same manner, as the so-called Z setup. However, I choose to use it as an intro pedal. Without going into details, I'll just disclose that it provides a very important function, by combining two changes, raising the 5th a whole tone, and lowering the second a full tone. The 3rd and 6th are raised a half tone by the same pedal. This allows for complete control of the 2nd and 5th strings, when used in combination with the 4th string lower. I have an intro worked out, with the use of that pedal, and the lowering and raising of the 4th string, that is very effective. Pedal 4 lowers the 9th string one half tone, and is used in combination with the A pedal, as well as the E-F knee lever. I use the 5 string grab for that effect. When I release the pedals and knee lever simultaneously, and gliss back one fret, having previously moved to it, the major to seventh resolve is left ringing. I have control of the 4 and 8th string, full tone raises at the right knee. BTW, wherever the 4th goes, the 8th goes with it. A common error is in excluding the full tone raise , of the 8th string.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 19 February 2004 at 11:34 PM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Feb 2004 3:15 am

But Bill..if we only have 2 Knee levers on our Steels..the value of our Steels will go down..

If ya got 8 knee levers, it doesn't matter if ya know how to use them, or what they even do for that matter..but..
the value of the Steel is higher..so it's gotta be better !

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 February 2004 at 03:16 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Feb 2004 4:54 am

Tony P.,

Not to fear, in terms of devaluation. This particular application is intended for, at least at this time, a newly built single 10, tuned to standard C6th. I have the high (G) note at string one. That could change in time, if I find a song that sounds prettier than Merle's " I'm A Lonesome Fugitive", when played off that top string. Other than the tuning, everything will be dissimilar to what you are accustomed to seeing, in a steel guitar showcase. I've explained that there isn't a chord written, that would disable my other trusty steel, tuned to E9th. The only requirement would be to memorize the given tones, that are found in a particular chord. From there it would be a simple matter of adding the changes, should they not be included in a particular setup. This would be a rarity, as I'm sure you'd agree, if minors, diminished, augmented chords, ninths, major 7's, sevenths, 7 flat 5's, minor sixes, minor sevenths, flat ninths, aug. ninths, major inversions, and many of the dicey grabs, heard in jazz oriented chords, are available. All that remains is to don the picks, and slide the bar. Really though, going back to your original statements, don't you agree that our interests in the pedal steel, are derived from its tonality, more so, than its lustrous beauty?

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 20 February 2004 at 05:33 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 20 February 2004 at 05:37 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Feb 2004 10:05 am

Ken F.,

I was distracted for the moment after reading your inquiry. After reading further into the post concerning Bobbe's Z arrangement, rest assured that his concept is not reducing the number of knee levers, as mine IS, but rather, simply another approach to a somewhat different arrangement of selected tones on one lever. My better judgment tells me, for number one, that the most advantageous placement of the 7th string F# raise is on the LKV position. Further, giving up the E-F is out of the question. You really spooked me, until I read into the facts and figures.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Feb 2004 3:05 am

Tony P.,

May I make a clarification, with reasonable banter, by bringing to your attention, that I don't recall advocating the use of ("2") knee levers, as you had written in a facetious manner. I don't mind that sort of prodding, provided it does not muddy up a concept, or subject matter, as evidenced in a sharp drop in responses.

Bill H.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 21 Feb 2004 9:00 am

Bill, the muddying of your concept did not happen by Tony's friendly comments.
It happened because you are not using the right techniques to "play your audience".
If you throw a bait and it is discovered that there is nothing on the hook, the fish will go way.

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Peter den Hartogh
Emmons 1978 S10-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12
Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4-Guya "Stringmaster"
MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158
My Animation College in South Africa

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Feb 2004 12:09 pm

Peter,

I was only trying to establish a semblance of rationalism by rallying for some agreement, that the leg movement involved in the raises and lowers, of the E notes is excessive. I am more determined than ever, after reading your input to accomplish the proposed concept of one knee lever for both changes.
I am anticipating that someone will be eating crow later on. It's very nice to hear from you again.

Bill H.