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Topic: split the steel king or try something new ? |
Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 4:29 am |
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Im trying to decide whether to have split cabs made for my steel king or whether to try a new 15" speaker/head set-up. im curios as to how heads such as evans, walker, quilter, or various class d bass heads stack up against the steel king. i recently compared my markbass head to the steel king and it sounds quite good but i'm not sure it sounds better than the steel king, plus it doesnt seem as loud which is strange considering its 500W. lastly, what is the difference between classes of amps (AB, D, MOFSET). i think the markbass is mofset. thanks
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 5:54 am
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Class AB is the common, traditional transistor amp type we've been used to since the 60's. It uses opposing pairs of transistors or sets of transistors. One side "pushes" and one side "pulls". They can be made to sound wonderful, and some can sound bland or harsh. Depends on the design and quality. Not the most efficient, lots of energy wasted in the form of heat.
Class D has also been around for years but only in the last 10 years or so have they figured out how to make it sound good in the midrange and treble. It's astonishingly efficient and cool-running and light. Some call it "digital", but it's really not digital. It's an analog approach. It generates a high frequency well above the audible band that is constantly "switching" on and off. Then the audio signal we want to hear is transposed onto that switching frequency. When it's done right, we wind up with a very low distortion audio signal up to 20kHz, and all that nasty switching noise gets filtered out in the amp and by our speakers that simply can't deliver that high frequency stuff. It has lots of advantages. Ultra lightweight, ultra powerful, very cool running, very strong and fast bass response, and to my ears, one of the best advantages is the lack of "crossover distortion". Class AB is constantly pushing and pulling. When the "push" half turns off and hands off the job to the "pull" half (and vice versa), there's a little bit of distortion when they hand off to eachother. Class-D doesn't have this artifact and is more like Class-A in this respect. I think this is why the better sounding Class-D stuff is so nice in the midrange at high power.
But beware of cheaper class-D stuff, some of these budget bass amp heads or the older Peavey DPC amps. That's Class-D without the refinements and advances found in the better stuff. Really good class-D can be found in what Telonics is doing in their amps and what TC Furlong has in his now rare and precious and very powerful SPLIT powered cabinets. Tim Marcus' new hybrid also uses a nice grade of class-D as well. There are other examples too for sure. I bet Quilter is doing a nice implementation, but I haven't heard it. Class-D keeps getting better and cheaper, but it's still hard to beat the higher end class-D tone quality.
But that being said, nearly every time I hear GD Walker's Stereo Steel heads, class-AB, I find it big and warm and nice sounding on pedal steel. Good class-AB smokes cheap class-D. And good class-D smokes cheap class-AB. It's largely a matter of design and quality. Lots of times you get what you pay for.
Most class-D uses "MOSFET" devices at the output to drive the speakers. But there are also "MOSFET" devices used in class-AB stuff. Paul Franklin for years used a MOSVALVE 500 power amp with his Mesa Studio tube preamp and that's a class-AB power amp that sounds pretty good on steel.
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 6:36 am
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Thanks Brad. so I take it my steel king is class AB ? have you compared the steel king to any of the above mentioned amps ?? I also really like the sound of the stereo steel amp. Milkman and Telonics are great but probably over my price range.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 6:46 am
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I have owned the Steel King and just recently purchased the Quilter Steelaire.
Before I get started, I have to say that in my opinion, you should NOT have to pay good money for any manufactures amp and then have to modify it just to get it to sound good. They should have worked all that out in their design.
OK,I did not care for the tone of the SK no matter how I set it. It just had kind of a thunky compressed nasal quality about it. In addition it was a heavy amp to lug around so splitting it would have most likely only cured the weight issue.
Recently my Nashville 1000 had to be returned to PEAVEY twice (and it's still not fixed) so I decided to hunt for something new. I read reviews and asked players questions an decided to go with the Quilter Steelaire.
I have had this amp for a couple of weeks now,playing two gigs with it and I really like it. Nice styling/build quality etc. 35 pounds is fantastic. Dual channel inputs,reverb is very nice w/adjustable decay and tone. 9 volt stomp box output,XLR out,additional speaker out which will handle just about any load. 200 watts that has so far not distorted when playing at really high levels. It is also a very quite amp.
Four band EQ which to me has a very nice open breathy quality. Tone seems to stay very even (not harsh or shrill) when playing quite or really loud
Some dealers will let you buy it and return less shipping if you don't like it so not a bad deal if you can't find one to try locally.
I mentioned the weight but I actually like going and getting the amp out of the trunk of my car now...LOL
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 7:08 am
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thanks Dick. I might like to try the Quilter. also interested in checking out the new Milkman hybrid amp, just sent Tim an email on that. the thing with the quilter is that I don't need all the effects that are included. Its definitely in the running though and I do think I will not split the steel king. I'm just not 100% with the sound of it. Sometimes I love it, and it sounds great with my Emmons (everything does), but my main gigging guitar is my Jackson and the Steel King seems to be somewhat hit or miss with this guitar. I just cant dial in the settings to my liking consistently. Sometimes it sounds great, and sometimes not so much.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 7:23 am
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+1 for the Milkman Hybrid.
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Some gear. |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 7:23 am
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The only effect it has is reverb. Variety is the spice of life so have fun.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 8:13 am
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time to start selling more gear !
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 8:35 am
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Elana Redfield, here in Brooklyn, sounds just wonderful with her p/p SD12 (used to be mine...sigh...) into a Milkman Sideman. I expect that the front end of the Half & Half is real close to the same thing.
I also have good days and bad days with my Steel King.
Just out of curiosity, Karen--do you have a frame of reference (i.e., have you ever had a Sho-Bud?) to say that if your Emmons is an Emmons, your Jackson is, sort of, Sho-Bud'y? |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 9:03 am
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I have yet to find an amp that my push pull Emmons sounds bad thru. I dont think the Jackson is shobuddy. It has a more modern sound. Most days I love it, but when playing it back to back with the Emmons the Emmons sounds nicer to me. The Jackson plays smooth as butter though, and sustains forever. Its a great guitar. I also like the Sideman, but I already have a fender twin modded for steel so I am looking for something more portable.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 10:56 am
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Thanks for the response, Karen.
And thanks, Brad, for the explanation above.
I had not realized that AB applied to SS amps as well as tube. Makes sense once you consider that transistors essentially replace/simulate tubes (as I ((try to)) understand it) |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 11:32 am
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most mosfet amps operate class AB
the class D module that I use operates more like a class A amp, but since its switching its Class D.
I'd vote Milkman too, but I am biased 
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Milkmansound.com |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 11:55 am
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Yeah Tim looks like I'm headed your way but not until I save up some scratch...
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 12:46 pm
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the good news is that I only ask for 50% up front - plenty of time to save between now and mid november
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Milkmansound.com |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2014 2:00 pm
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| +1 for the Walker Stereo Steel. Awesome warm tone in the near field (for the player) and the far field (for the audience). Two speakers really spreads the sound out and helps avoid the "beam" effect. |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2014 3:43 pm
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found a local used Steelaire combo, going to check it out tomorrow 
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Dave Bertoncini
From:
Sun City West, Arizona USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2014 3:46 pm
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| I think you will like the Steelaire...I do |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 10:41 am
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well I came home with a steelaire ! It really sounds great. I saved a few bucks as it is used but it sure wasn't used much, still got that new amp smell 
Its a very warm and clear amp. been using my el capistan in the effects loop and it sounds amazing. probably be selling my wet reverb pedal, as the reverb in this amp is also great.
I will use it for my gig with Girl Howdy next weekend. that will be the real test, but so far so goo. thanks for the help my friends.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Dave Bertoncini
From:
Sun City West, Arizona USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 10:48 am
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| Told you that you would like it... I have two |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 11:19 am
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two would be great i bet it sounds unbelievable in stereo
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Dave Bertoncini
From:
Sun City West, Arizona USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 11:29 am
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| Yes it does...I run one straight with just the reverb and run delay on the other. |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 11:47 am
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cool 
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 1:14 pm
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Karen, first, congrats on the Quilter.
Second, if the Steel King doesn't impress you, I don't think throwing money at split cabs will make you like it more.
Unless you want an amp as a backup, I'd just sell it and move on. There's too much good-sounding gear out there that it makes no sense to hold on to the other kind, unless you have a loose floorboard that needs holding down.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 1:44 pm
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thanks Doug and Lane. I do think I will sell the steel king tho i REALLY don't want to ship it. I will definitely be selling the NV112 tho !
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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