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Topic: What I've Learned in 42 years |
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 11:04 am |
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I have the exact opposite of volume pedal abuse. I tend to ignore the volume pedal completely.  |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 12:27 pm
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| Dan Klotz wrote: |
| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
I have to ask, if you don't get your right leg "trained" (I think Joe Wright calls it 'muscle memory'), how is just working on right hand technique going teach you how to use the volume pedal effectively? I have nothing but respect for Buddy, but I don't think that is a "cure all". |
I think the idea is to not use the volume pedal as a crutch by using it instead of good blocking, hiding mistakes, etc. |
I interpreted the statement by Buddy to mean more of learning to use your right hand to control dynamics that some tend to use the volume pedal as a substitute. But many do use it as a crutch to cover up bad blocking, hiding mistakes, etc...
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 2:10 pm
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I would agree with that. If you NEED a volume pedal to play the gig, there's a problem somewhere... I always tell my guitar students: The left hand (assuming a right-handed person) is the SCIENCE of playing guitar; the right hand is the ART. Of course pedal steel is more complicated in every way, but still the right hand determines the tone, timing, volume, blend, and blocking/muting, as well as just what notes you play.
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 2:23 pm
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I beg to differ, Barry.
As the craft of steel playing evolved with the volume pedal, we have made use of the volume pedal for counter dynamics (I don't think there's a word for this, if there is, I don't know it): getting the TONE of hard picking at soft volumes by throttling the hell out of it, or getting the tone of barely-caressed strings at LOUD volumes.
The pedal makes that possible.
I have played gigs without a volume pedal, and an important arrow was removed from my quiver.
This isn't quite a guitar, to think in 6-string terms short-changes things.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 2:42 pm
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Sorry, Lane -- don't get me wrong. I love my (Hilton) volume pedal, and even though I don't NEED it to survive a gig I would not want to be lacking that "arrow in my quiver" either. My mistake was in picking hard AND stomping the volume pedal at the same time when I wanted a note, dyad, or chord to cut through the mix; I don't do that anymore.
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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Jimbo Watkins
From:
Allen, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 2:55 pm
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Given that I have been playing steel for just under 42 weeks, this thread is pure gold. Thanks Barry and contributors!
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It's only a flesh wound! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 4:42 pm
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42 weeks... 42 years... Hey, that's close.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 5:00 pm
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| Barry Hyman wrote: |
| I would agree with that. If you NEED a volume pedal to play the gig, there's a problem somewhere... I always tell my guitar students: The left hand (assuming a right-handed person) is the SCIENCE of playing guitar; the right hand is the ART. Of course pedal steel is more complicated in every way, but still the right hand determines the tone, timing, volume, blend, and blocking/muting, as well as just what notes you play. |
I did a gig where my Goodrich electronic volume pedal (LDR 2) started acting up on me. Got through sound check Ok? Time for the band to start, my volume pedal was wide open. And, of course, the first song has steel guitar doing the intro, a turn around, the solo, and the ending. Luckily, it was a large venue and everything was mic'd. My amp was close enough to reach. So, I had to turn it up, play the intro, turn it down (guitar wanted to feed back), reach back, turn it up for the turnaround, turn it back down, turn it up for the solo. When I turned my amp up, the volume pedal started to work. It of course drop your volume output to the amp. So, the solo was barely audible. I think I have a descent right hand, but there is no way right hand dynamics would have gotten me through that song. Oh, and some backup stuffe going into and during the bridge. The most steel guitar intensive song that band did. That incident made me order another Hilton pedal to replace the one I had to sell. My Goodrich is back to the backup role and stays in my pak-a-seat. I learned that I really would have a hard time playing without a volume pedal, if I could play at all.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 6:06 pm
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| Scott Duckworth wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Scott, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? |
Lead guitar players play the melody line of the music. Steel players tend to not play the melody line, but fills and stuff through the song. There are times when the steel shines, and becomes the lead instrument playing the melody, but usually not a whole song. I have had a hard time breaking myself from playing the "lead". |
I guess it depends on your lead guitar style. Some of my favorite PSG playing is really similar to Swing Guitar in that the melody is included but it is done concurrently with playing chord-rhythm guitar.
But I concur that playing rhythm PSG is something which many newer PSG players spend too little time doing and learning.
Most of the time when I play PSG; I am seeking to be subtle and almost unnoticed. As a steel player I want to make the sound fuller without standing out or getting much notice. My playing style is rooted in a desire to make everyone else sound great.
The other thing that many new players (of many instruments and not just the PSG) seem to struggle with is playing very-slow and sparse accompanyment. The players that demonstrate skill in the-less-is-more approach are to my ears and mind often the most desirable folks to play with. John Hagen; the Cello player with Lyle Lovett epitomizes the kind of less is more accompanyment style that I am thinking of. Pete Kleinow did a great deal of slow or subtle backup playing; I think that is one of the reasons that he ended up doing studio work with such a wide variety of musicians. .
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 6:14 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
As the craft of steel playing evolved with the volume pedal, we have made use of the volume pedal for counter dynamics (I don't think there's a word for this, if there is, I don't know it): getting the TONE of hard picking at soft volumes by throttling the hell out of it, or getting the tone of barely-caressed strings at LOUD volumes.
The pedal makes that possible. |
Amen Lane.
I could not and did not say that any better myself.
Thank you for articulating that so clearly and concisely.
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Aug 2014 7:21 pm
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| Scott Duckworth wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Scott, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? |
Lead guitar players play the melody line of the music. Steel players tend to not play the melody line, but fills and stuff through the song. There are times when the steel shines, and becomes the lead instrument playing the melody, but usually not a whole song. I have had a hard time breaking myself from playing the "lead". |
The interesting guitar players don't do that. Pete Wade, Grady Martin, Ray Flacke, Brent Mason et al will paraphrase the melody, or they'll use it to inform an entirely different line, or find some other inspiration for an unrelated line.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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David Stilley
From:
Santa Cruz, California, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 11:38 am My 2 cents (or Jaco's anyway)
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I also play bass guitar. I was watching an old Jaco Pastorius instructional video a couple of months ago and one of the first tips that Jaco gave for any bass player was that even if you don't play it you should know how to play the main melody of any song you're working up on your bass. It will positively influence your decisions when creating your part in the arrangement.
This really hit me as a profound kind of concept to be kept in the forefront of your thinking process when creating a part for backing a singer on any instrument. So know how to play the main melody on your steel, and you can better reinforce that melody whether you play parts of it or not. I think glancing references to the melody can be most effective musically.
_________________
GFI Ultra U-12 7+5 E9/B6, Roland Cube 80XL, Telonics FP-100 Volume pedal with TMRS remote sensor (courtesy of Dave Beaty and Telonics) |
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John Peay
From:
Cumming, Georgia USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 11:46 am
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| Eugene Cole wrote: |
Most of the time when I play PSG; I am seeking to be subtle and almost unnoticed. As a steel player I want to make the sound fuller without standing out or getting much notice. My playing style is rooted in a desire to make everyone else sound great.
The other thing that many new players (of many instruments and not just the PSG) seem to struggle with is playing very-slow and sparse accompanyment. The players that demonstrate skill in the-less-is-more approach are to my ears and mind often the most desirable folks to play with. |
Man that is pure gold for me and what I'm working on in my own playing now just past the 3-year mark, thanks !! |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 7:37 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| I did a gig where my Goodrich electronic volume pedal (LDR 2) started acting up on me. Got through sound check Ok? Time for the band to start, my volume pedal was wide open. And, of course, the first song has steel guitar doing the intro, a turn around, the solo, and the ending. Luckily, it was a large venue and everything was mic'd. My amp was close enough to reach. So, I had to turn it up, play the intro, turn it down (guitar wanted to feed back), reach back, turn it up for the turnaround, turn it back down, turn it up for the solo. When I turned my amp up, the volume pedal started to work. It of course drop your volume output to the amp. So, the solo was barely audible. I think I have a descent right hand, but there is no way right hand dynamics would have gotten me through that song. Oh, and some backup stuffe going into and during the bridge. The most steel guitar intensive song that band did. That incident made me order another Hilton pedal to replace the one I had to sell. My Goodrich is back to the backup role and stays in my pak-a-seat. I learned that I really would have a hard time playing without a volume pedal, if I could play at all. |
I know this is off-topic for this thread, but I'd speculate that what happened to you is what happened to me once with an LDR-2. I was on an outdoor stage with the stage facing west in the late afternoon. The sun shone right into the front of the LDR-2, which of course operates by way of a Light Dependent Resistor, when it was in the backed-off position, freezing it electronically wide open. Took me a couple of stressful minutes before I figured out what the #%@! must be happening and put something in front of the volume pedal to block the sun. Good chance a light source did the same thing to you. |
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Gary Cooper
From:
Atmore, Alabama
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 11:31 am
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Barry, EXCELLENT information. VERY HELPFUL. This is a real treasure trove of info, that is not found in the 'books' but through experience. THANKS FOR SHARING.
_________________
GFI Ultra SD-10; Nashville 112; Hilton pedal, George L Cables; Pearse bar; Live Stings;Walker seat by Billy Knowles. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 2:49 pm
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| I did a gig where my Goodrich electronic volume pedal (LDR 2) started acting up on me. Got through sound check Ok? Time for the band to start, my volume pedal was wide open. And, of course, the first song has steel guitar doing the intro, a turn around, the solo, and the ending. Luckily, it was a large venue and everything was mic'd. My amp was close enough to reach. So, I had to turn it up, play the intro, turn it down (guitar wanted to feed back), reach back, turn it up for the turnaround, turn it back down, turn it up for the solo. When I turned my amp up, the volume pedal started to work. It of course drop your volume output to the amp. So, the solo was barely audible. I think I have a descent right hand, but there is no way right hand dynamics would have gotten me through that song. Oh, and some backup stuffe going into and during the bridge. The most steel guitar intensive song that band did. That incident made me order another Hilton pedal to replace the one I had to sell. My Goodrich is back to the backup role and stays in my pak-a-seat. I learned that I really would have a hard time playing without a volume pedal, if I could play at all. |
I know this is off-topic for this thread, but I'd speculate that what happened to you is what happened to me once with an LDR-2. I was on an outdoor stage with the stage facing west in the late afternoon. The sun shone right into the front of the LDR-2, which of course operates by way of a Light Dependent Resistor, when it was in the backed-off position, freezing it electronically wide open. Took me a couple of stressful minutes before I figured out what the #%@! must be happening and put something in front of the volume pedal to block the sun. Good chance a light source did the same thing to you. |
That happened to me several years ago. I talked to Goodrich about it. They knew of the problem and had me send the pedal back, and they added more plastic "sheilding" to cure that problem. The club used a lot of lights, but I have played ther numerous times with no problem. No light is suposed to be able to get inside to the sensor. I would also suspect the problem would have persisted.
Sorry for the topic drift.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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