musicians should respect one another

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 26 Aug 2014 9:02 am

I have theories about just about everything, including music:

Musicians have both emotional & logistic centerpoints. They're basically gloomy, or happy, or carefully thoughtful, or "forget what you know and let 'er rip"; etc, etc, and so forth. They also have a bandwidth, a wider or narrower range of music they can play expressing the range of emotions contained withing their bandwidth (or "Q", as the pros call it). Beyond or outside their bandwidth they might sound just a trifle labored, overly "people-pleasing", or, even a bit dishonest. Of course some people have an extremely wide range, with such competence throughout they actually become their own genre - Buddy Emmons, Miles Davis, Chet Atkins come to mind.

And - they also have what I can "islands", way off their normal range, but still a point of genuine inspiration. Junior Brown->Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis->Frank Sinatra, Stevie Ray Vaughan->surf instrumentals come to mind.

And, of course, listeners have all these characteristics too! Meaning, the tighter the fit, the greater the love. There are some near-exact matches, some other musicians who partially supply the listener, perhaps leading to a widening of their Q. And some others, just a big fat bust. Your key won't unlock their door and/or vice-versa.

All this is a roundabout way of saying that long ago, I gave myself permissions to NOT like some people even though I know they are definitely great musicians. I have never, ever been able to love an entire genre of music, it's always individuals within a genre. Long ago I stopped buying boring trumpet jazz albums just because my brain is deeply intertwined with three certain periods of Miles Davis's music. When I was a tyke there was, like, an electrified fence and gator-stocked moat running between Mahavishnu John McLaughlin and Pat Metheny. You either were, or you weren't, and even though I have 3 or 4 of Metheny's "greatest" albums, he still bores me half to death. My favorite opera singer? My favorite rapper? mmmm....

Time is precious, and you are allowed to filter what you listen to. Nobody watches TV shows they hate in the hopes of gleaning some secret wisdom...(?) You don't eat food you hate and hang up ugly pictures just because it might, uh, somehow build your character...(?) I understand borrowing from everywhere possible, but not to the extent of playing stuff I hate - there's just too much fine music out there.

Speaking of islands, I have an early-60's pre-ambassador Ravi Shankar album, and it's crystal-clear he had been picking up on some Scruggsian banjo playing. And I have known three separate, die-hard heavy metal/hard rock guys, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath - all with an amazing fixation on... Neil Diamond! You haven't lived till you've heard a greasy kitchen boombox that sounds good at "6", turned to "10" and grinding out "Cracklin' Rosie" over, and over, and over. And over.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 26 Aug 2014 9:50 am

David Mason wrote:...You haven't lived till you've heard a greasy kitchen boombox that sounds good at "6", turned to "10" and grinding out "Cracklin' Rosie" over, and over, and over. And over.

Years ago we lived next door to a woman with a toddler whose radiogram was next to our dividing wall and she played Smurf music over and over for hours. Eventually I put a guitar amlifier up against the dividing wall, connected up an old 60s rhythm generator, set the rhythm and went out for a few hours. She got the message and the Smurf music stopped.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 26 Aug 2014 11:49 am

Smurf music? Is that like the blues?

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 28 Aug 2014 12:17 pm

Musicians should respect one another
Let me start by saying that most here deserve respect.
However I think it needs to be qualified.

How about just a couple of red flags likeâ€¦.

What if you are a great player but a total Ahole in one or all other endeavors?

What if you are a great player that has been pampered to the point that your expectation is that no one below your playing ability is qualified nor allowed to disagree with you on anything.

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 28 Aug 2014 2:36 pm

What if they turn out to be a Child Molester, as in the case of one flawed Genius.?

Ulrich Sinn · Post by **Ulrich Sinn** » 28 Aug 2014 3:26 pm

did this thread just get hijacked?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Aug 2014 9:35 pm

Two posts don't make a hijack.
If James mean Brozman, in time his work will regain respect; witness Hank Penny. Bob did a lot of good musically that deserved hearing.
If James meant Abe Spear, I expect he'll disappear without a trace.
In general among stellar musicians, affable goofballs/eccentrics and jerks tend to outnumber run-of-the-mill nice guys. I'd say everybody deserves respect as a musician, regardless of personality

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 29 Aug 2014 10:24 am

The original intent of this thread was to suggest that we shouldn't diss players who play in new and unorthodox styles. This applies not just to Robert Randolph, but to Susan Alcorn as well.

There seems to be a rigid mindset among some players that thew steel is only suitable for playing country, and there is something wrong with using it to play anything else. This restrictive attitude is holding the steel back, and preventing its integration into more genres.

Bob Brozman's crimes (assuming he really was guilty,) are not really relevant to this.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 29 Aug 2014 11:08 am

but to Susan Alcorn as well.

FWIW, I attended a steel jam at a fellow Forumite's home a few weeks back. We played some bebop and country ditties with Susan in attendance. While her music of choice to perform in public may not be accepted amongst some traditional steel players, I can assure you she can shuffle and bop with the best of them.... if not better.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 30 Aug 2014 2:29 am

Don't forget Dan Tyack and Bob Hofnar , they can really play and think out of the box!
Johan

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 31 Aug 2014 8:38 am

We had three great steel guitarist who play out of the box years ago. One was a " Red " and one was " Winegarden " & one was a " Al " & they all had respect from all us Musicians here in Southern California.

Uncle Leo J Eiffert Jr & his Crawfish Band.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 1 Sep 2014 11:45 am

â€œThinking out of the boxâ€ is such an old clichÃ© itâ€™s back in the box.
When UPS delivers your Box just donâ€™t sign for it!

Rule One: You should not disrespect steel players who are the subject of the topic but itâ€™s OK to disrespect those who reply.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 1 Sep 2014 12:52 pm

Bo Legg wrote:Rule One: You should not disrespect steel players who are the subject of the topic but itâ€™s OK to disrespect those who reply.

I respectfully disagree.

We don't have to agree with each other, but everybody here is a fellow steel guitarist, and everybody here deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.

Dissing only leads to more dissing and flaming, and this forum is too precious to allow to deteriorate into one of those places where people fight with each other.

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 1 Sep 2014 3:05 pm

It has been brought to my attention my post could be construed to make some reference to Mr. Legg because it came right below his. This is not the case, the person I was referring to was named by several others.

The OP suggested we all should respect each other, I was just drawing a line where I would stop respecting a person, regardless how gifted he or she was.

James.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Sep 2014 3:29 pm

Music changes, never staying the same for very long. That's dictated because new hands and new ears constantly come on the scene, and their participation is not mired by the past. That's just the way things are.

Now, some would contend that things would be better if they stayed the same, but those who preach thusly oughta remember that, if you refuse to move, you have no right to complain that you're not getting anywhere.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 1 Sep 2014 4:45 pm

Robert is playing festival near me in a couple of weeks one day and The New Riders W/ Buddy Cage are playing the next day! Guess who got tickets!!

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 1 Sep 2014 7:43 pm

Hmmm, I've always thought Robert's playing is pretty freakin' awesome. I can't understand who wouldn't . I think it may have to do with old attitudes,but,I may be wrong. I like sacred steel. It's not as easy to pull off as you might think. It's just as much of a valid style as jazz or country. Jerry Garcia played one of the best sounding steel breaks ever in a pop/rock song and the man still gets grief over 40 years after the fact....just sayin...

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Sep 2014 3:52 am

Dustin, in my opinion (and that of people with good ears that aren't steel players), Teach Your Children SOUNDS like the playing of someone with weeks of steel playing behind them. But someone with amazing taste and judgment, who can spin newbie licks into a remarkable classic break.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 2 Sep 2014 8:09 am

Some people disrespect other musicians for reasons other than music, and many of us have low respect for kinds of music that we don't like. Most of this is cultural - we can rise above it if we choose to. If you've ever mastered a song, it's easy to appreciate the hard work and/or raw talent that goes into playing any kind of music.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 2 Sep 2014 8:56 am

b0b wrote:...many of us have low respect for kinds of music that we don't like.

It's not just us. Back in the 60s, one of my college professors proclaimed with greet authority that the Beatles didn't have any musical talent.

To her, talented musicians played classical music or sang opera. Period. Anybody who played anything else was a talentless hack.

Snobbery, arrogance, and stupidity can be found anywhere.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 2 Sep 2014 9:58 am

Lane - "Your Children SOUNDS like the playing of someone with weeks of steel playing behind them. But someone with ...."
Sorry brother but no -no- no - I respectfully say NO.
The steel on "Teach" sounds like someone who has played steel forever! Like someone who just plays music and uses whatever tools they need to get the sound out of the ether and into reality!
As far as respect, it must be earned. I don't care what kind of fancy schmancy guitar player someone is.I used to. Some people like scramble eggs. Some sunny side up. It don't matter long as they are not rotten.
PS Mr. Mason, I loved your post.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 Sep 2014 10:21 am

Bud Angelotti wrote:...like someone who just plays music and uses whatever tools they need to get the sound out of the ether and into reality!...

There are a lot of us like that. "Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none" used to be the expression. The music is more important than the mastery of instruments. If I'm working on an arrangement and I think it needs an instrument that I don't have, I'll build one or buy one and use it. I don't have to wait until I'm a master on that instrument; just to play it enough to record the part I want. As I've said before, most professional musicians are not masters of their instrument, but they are sufficiently proficient at it to play and entertain the audience, which is what, in the end, music is all about, isn't it?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 2 Sep 2014 11:27 am

From a forum I no longer participate in.

If this guy Lloyd Green is so great, how come CSN&Y didn't use him instead of Jerry Garcia? Garcia is the greatest pedal steel player in the world. How dare you say otherwise?

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 Sep 2014 12:08 pm

...Jerry Garcia ... is the greatest pedal steel player in the world. How dare you say otherwise?

And, I guess, the Greatful Dead are the greatest musicians who ever lived.

Is it too early to start a collection for a shrine?

Ulrich Sinn · Post by **Ulrich Sinn** » 2 Sep 2014 12:09 pm

Teach Your Children SOUNDS like the playing of someone with weeks of steel playing behind them.

Crap. I really should pack it in.

After quite a few weeks of playing I'm still rather happy to hit the right string combinations.