Tone changes as volume increases?

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

I have been through the forum archives trying to understand what I can do to resolve this issue but haven't come up with anything yet that works. I am playing a Jackson Blackjack into a matchbox, then to a Stage One pot volume pedal, and then into a Peavey Vegas 400. I am a fairly new player so I have tons to learn, be gentle.

I can get a pretty decent tone at lower volumes that is pleasing to my ear. As the band gets louder and I need to get louder, what I hear from my amp isn't pleasing at all. The highs start to become too shrill and there is a horrible mid-range woof that is very evident.

Is this a normal problem, as you increase your volume your tone changes significantly?

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
Andy

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Are you using a pot pedal?
That can change your tone as you up the volume.

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Hi Andy,
You might try playing your steel directly into your amp, with no Matchox, or Stage One pedal. Observe what the steel sounds like all by itself, at various volume levels. Use the shortest high quality cords available; a three-foot cord from your steel to your amp is desirable. If the sound is good, bring the volume pedal back into the chain, then add the Matchbox back in and see if you can narrow down the problem. Another test would be having the guitar player plug in to your system.

Keep in mind that the frequency response of the Human ear changes as the volume changes. We hear more high end and low end as things get louder, but it should not be a huge change as you describe. Please let us know your findings.

Sincerely,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
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Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Yes, this is a pot pedal.

Andy

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Some amps and speakers simply begin to sound harsh as they are pushed to their power limits. It could simply be the sheer loudness mixed with the diminishing tone quality of the amp and speaker at those levels.

Question, how far away from the amp were you sitting? 3 feet, 8 feet?

Brad

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Are you unable to find a tone that you like at high volume?
Or are you turning up the amp using the low volume settings?
It makes sense that settings should be different.
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Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Feel blessed and lucky that your playing ability has progressed to where you can hear the tone change. Laughing

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

What kind of amp are you using? (It's hard to formulate good ideas when we don't know much to go on.)

Here's my thoughts:

If your amp is underpowered, it will push into distortion when you play really loud. High notes will progress into harmonic distortion, which sounds far worse when the amp is solid state. Loud chords progress into intermodulation distortion when the volume goes up, and this sounds especially bad when the instrumemt isn't in perfect tune. Choosing gear that performs well in all situations is difficult, and often...compromises must be made. Of course, we all hear things differently, some like a little distortion, and some don't. If you're already using a buffer between the pedal and the guitar, that should eliminate the common "tone change" problem that everyone talks about with pot pedals. Lastly, realize that our ears sometimes hear loud and soft sounds differently, and that not all problems have easy solutions. Smile

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Andy Vance wrote:

". . . I am playing a Jackson Blackjack into a matchbox, then to a Stage One pot volume pedal, and then into a Peavey Vegas 400."
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Sorry Craig...it's been a 14-hour day, and I missed that. Confused

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Have a more experienced player play your set up. I'll guess that it will sound great at any volume. The problem is most likely with your hands. If you rest your wrist on the edge of the bridge you will get that sound you are talking about. Picking weakly with the edge of pics doesn't work so well also. Clutching the bar to hard is bad for tone.

You have very nice gear that you spent a lot of money on. I don't think you can spend or knob adjust your way to better sound.
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Bob

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

I second Bob's advice.
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress)

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If you have enough room, it'll sound better 5 feet out.
I don't know how you have your knobs set, but you'll find most people will run like this, or close Ti it:
Gain 3
Low +9
Mid -3
Shift a bit above 800
High between 0 and +3
Presence +3 to +5

But poor tone from a novice is usually a technique thing: especially with good gear, and you have good gear.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Fresh strings can make a big difference to.
_________________
Bob

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

If you decide it is the pot in the pedal, check to see what kind of pot it is. I have one of the pots that Tom Bradshaw sells and I really don't hear a tone change in it. I did hear a change in the old AB pots that I used to use but are no longer available. You might want to swap out the pot for one of Tom's.

Also, I am impressed that you can hear the difference, being a new player. Good ear and that helps on any instrument, especially the steel.

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Update: So I have been through all of the gear and it seems that I had a cable that was causing this at higher volumes. Once I went through each piece of gear, adding one piece back at a time, I eventually found the cable that caused it. I initially blamed the matchbox as I hooked this cable and the matchbox up at the same time but it was definitely the cable.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions that got me stated down the right road.

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Andy

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