Beginners Dobro Question

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 15 Jan 2001 2:25 pm

I need you guys to make a decision on this for me.

The Melobro Fiberglass idea started out as a possible low cost Resonator guitar, but it's monster sound and tone and the modifications, has taken it way over the top to competing with very high end guitars. So it's price is having to go up to have the cosmetics and very best tone we can possibly build into them. And we also are limiting production to only 20 customers per season.

This has been bothering me because Melobar has always had a goal of helping beginners get started. I've wanted a complete beginners package for some time, Paul Beard has been taking the inexpensive imports and putting better guts in them for some time, and I have been asking him to come up with a complete package to turn guys on to, but he doesn't deal with Mel Bay or some of the other Music Store suppliers.

I've been talking with the suppliers and Johnson has just made me an amazing offer.

See if you think this would fly:

A Johnson Square neck
Good tuning keys
modified saddle and nut
Quarterman Cone
Gig Bag case
Dunlop Dobro bar
Pro Piks Pat. finger picks
Melobar Fret Guide
Strap
Gig Bag Case
J. Davis Learn to Play Dobro Book & CD

As a package for $399

You guys know how busy we are and I don't want to put a tick of time into it unless there is a real need,

what do you think?

Ted

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 15 Jan 2001 2:29 pm

I think that'd be a real winner, Ted.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Aaron Schiff · Post by **Aaron Schiff** » 15 Jan 2001 3:13 pm

Ted, I think it is a good idea. The one modification I might make is an option for a hard shell case. I just don't like gig bags. I am very sorry to hear about the Melobro changes though. I had decided that was my next step up in instrument. I like the durability of the fiberglass and the price was obviously very attractive. Who is going to fill the $1000 slot now? And only 20 per year?

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 15 Jan 2001 4:17 pm

Ted,

Janet Davis is already doing something similar to what you've explained. She sells a Regal "Delux" which is a standard Regal RD45S with a Quarterman cone installed. The price of the guitar alone is $545.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 15 Jan 2001 4:31 pm

sounds like a more than fair deal to me....i would definitely recommend it! thanks for caring!

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 16 Jan 2001 6:01 am

Ted -- if you're satisfied with the quality and can pull this off for that price, I'd be at the front of the line.

Peter

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 16 Jan 2001 6:38 am

Ted,

Great price, great accessories. I'm unfamiliar with the Johnson resos, but assuming the guitar as you sell it sounds good, it's going to be a great deal.

Keep us informed.

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 16 Jan 2001 6:47 am

If you can do it at that price, it would be the best deal around.
I bought my first Dobro a year ago from Paul Beard.
Your package is more for less money.
Blake

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 16 Jan 2001 9:08 am

I hear what you're saying about the quality and I've already ordered some and am waiting myself to see what we are going to get.
That price is dependent upon our having to just true up the sound well-level the Spider legs-install the Quarterman, new nut new saddle, string up and go. I've talked with the company that owns the 8 overseas factories that builds all the Regal, Flinthill, Saga, etc., cheap Electric and Acoustic guitars, before. The quality level is reflected by which factory you get it out of. If you've noticed, all the bodies are the same fat lower bout and narrow waist. Paul says the only difference between the Regal and Flinthill is the Flinthill has a cosmetic 2nd somewhere. I'd say Janets price for the Regal is not that bad. Probably these Johnsons will have cosmetic blem's like a slight run sanded out to a sag, or a bit of dust in the finish. They still look good and I think that it's worth the price in looks to get a beginner started with a good playing and sounding instrument. What is everyone's thought on that?

As far as the price ranges in Resonator guitars, we had the OMI Dobro factory doing some stuff for us just before dear Henry at Gibson fired everyone and moved it to Nashville. Paul and I knew it would leave a gap and both tried to fill that gap, but in this day of the cost of finishes and chrome, the best Paul could do is about what Dobro now offers in the $1,800 range, however I've had a lot of people tell me Dobros quality is really up and down right now. Paul is THE supplier and man now in the Resonator world. He controls all the Quarterman cones because John really does not want to deal with the public. And in the $1,800 wood range - Paul is the best available. Paul is the one who encouraged us to stick it out with the Fiberglass, and if you don't know the man, you need to get in touch with him, he's one of the decent people in this business.

The fiberglass is so difficult to manufacture that I don't have it in me to build more than 20 a year. Price looks like it will be $1,195, with the interchangeable wood baffle system, if you saw the post on Buy and Sell, we believe you'll see that baffle system in wood guitars too because it allows you to build a sound board that the players arm or leg isn't going to muffle. When you hear the tone you'll know what I mean. We were already getting compared with Sheerhorns guitars, now I think we are going to give Tim an amazing run for sound. If I know Tim though, he'll be jumping right on it, I purposefully didn't Patent those sound baffles, like dad would have, because I want to hear them used out there. I'm pretty burned out on building for the mass public and want to get back to building the customs for peoples who's names I actually know with the guitar.

That's probably more info than anyone wanted to know, but there's the situation in the pricing as I can see.

Ted[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 16 January 2001 at 09:12 AM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 16 Jan 2001 10:12 am

Ted, (or anyone who care to answer)

What is it about the squareneck resonator that makes it so expensive compared to other instruments? I don't know much about them, so I can only make such a comment based on what I can see. What I see is this:

-You can buy a Quarterman cone RETAIL at $45 (who knows what the wholesale cost is).
-You can buy a US-made spider at about the same price or less, and a cover plate for around that as well.
-Squarenecks don't require much, if any, attention to fretwork as does a roundneck guitar.
-Most, if not all Reso's are made of laminated wood which would seem to be less expensive than solid wood and easier to form.
-You can buy a new Martin D16 ALL SOLID WOOD dreadnought guitar new for $700. I have one of these and I can tell you that it is top of the line.
-You can buy a new Martin D18, for crying out loud, for $1100.
-You can buy a brand new professional S-10 pedal steel guitar with metal neck extruded and machined aluminum parts, stainless steel legs, etc. etc. for $2000.

Yet, the least expensive American-made squareneck reso guitar (to my knowledge) is selling for around $1,250. This is the Dobro and I've heard the same thing -- that the quality of these is not consistent. With that in mind, in order to get a decent Reso, you'd have to move up to another brand which starts at around $1,500. The only thing I can think of to explain the apparent price disparity between Resos and other instruments is that there aren't many Resos made, and thus, there is not the economies of scale enjoyed by other instruments. But then again, you have the pedal steel which is hand made in very small numbers and much more complex to build (at least it looks that way) has way more parts, and sells for not much more than a Reso.

Aaron Schiff · Post by **Aaron Schiff** » 16 Jan 2001 11:59 am

Wow Ted, that's a lot of good info. I feel most comfortable dealing with people when I understand their decision making. People like you and Paul contribute a lot of good to the music business. Good luck with the Johnsons. The ones that I have seen are good starter instruments. I am playing a Fender made by Samick in Korea right now with a nut adapter. I was afraid Melobros were going to be in the $1800-$2000 range. I will be giving you a call in about a year:-))

Mikel Nelson · Post by **Mikel Nelson** » 16 Jan 2001 12:24 pm

Hey Ted,
It may be a silly idea, but have you tried approaching National about this?

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 16 Jan 2001 12:59 pm

We thought the same way with Reso cost but just try it and cover overhead etc. I would say that the volume of sales does makes a huge difference in your ability to get a CNC neck cut for $100 or $20. To do the job right, (shape the cone lip-true the sound well-balance and level the spider-clean the bridge slot and clamp-in the saddle at even pressure in the Spider, always takes more labor than I expect. BUT-that is the difference between a Reso that rings and a dead head at certain octaves and on the bass strings. Those are the best answers I can give on the prices. If I could build less expensive ones at quality you know I would.

I've known Don at National clear back to the Dobro days, we had adjoining booths at NAMM in Nashville for a couple of years and he is just as swamped, and, wants to deal with dealers - whereas I'm now direct only on these.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 16 Jan 2001 2:57 pm

Thanks for the answer, Ted.

I take it then, that a lot of the cost is in the labor associated with a quality set up (getting all the parts to fit together exactly right). That makes sense to me.

In light of that, the wholesale cost of those Johnsons would realy have to be next to nothing for you to not only do the full set up, but also add all those parts. Good grief! Even if they gave them to you for free, I don't know how you could make any decent profit at a retail price of $399.

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 16 Jan 2001 4:42 pm

Tom, if I was looking for profit I wouldn't be doing this...just ask my wife.

I'll tell you my motivation, I lived through the 70's where you couldn't give a slide guitar away unless it was to hold a disco ball. I don't want to go through those years again. The more people I help into the world of Steel/Slide now, the more chance our 3rd generation now in the company has of making a living. So this package and the Rattler Lap Steel package do not make any profit but help introduce players to an entirely new voice. If the voice sounds like a tin can...no matter how well they play...they are not going to fall in love with it.

Ted

Keith Doot · Post by **Keith Doot** » 23 Jan 2001 12:31 pm

Mr Smith,
I wanted to encourage your efforts to develop a good, lowcost, beginners instrument. I am looking to buy my first resophonoc square neck and have been trying to find a good instrument. (currently practicing on a student guitar with a nut extender) I have chatted with Mr. Beard in the past, but with 3 in college I am a little short of cash. I don't know how the Johnsons compare to the Regals but the best I can seem to come up with is the RD-45 for about $300. I heard it had a spun cone, just not a Quarterman. I also found a used Epiphone for $300 with a hard case. If both of those require upgrades then your idea is appealing to me. If you think it will happen in the near future i can be patient for a little longer.

Good Luck and thanks for your time.

Keith

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 23 Jan 2001 4:34 pm

Well the Johnson just came in...
not bad, like driving a go kart, ok for a little practice'r but embarrassing if you tried to play it in a jam with any caliber guitar players.
The Huge problem is - the cover plate is 4mm lower than the more expensive plates, which makes it so you can't put a decent saddle or spider in it and drive the cone. You'd have to replace the plate. The neck is very wide so you'd have to make a custom bone nut for it - and that size is expensive. The keys were not die cast but open keys. Basically replace everything. Probably run closer to $549 and the problem is it still has the Johnson name on it for resale.
If Janet is doing the entire guitar and set up, then the Regal is the best buy through her.
I'm going to sell this guitar at cost-anybody who wants it email me.
I tried guys.

Ted[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 23 January 2001 at 05:37 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 23 January 2001 at 05:42 PM.]

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 23 Jan 2001 5:51 pm

Thanks Ted-
I really appreciate what you've done and the way you do it. Thanks for all the hard work in trying to put together a decent, affordable reso. Here's wishing you well on your sabbatical.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 24 Jan 2001 5:50 am

Ted --

I echo Sage's comments -- we all appreciate what you are trying to do for the non-pedal community. Don't let this discourage you from innovating and finding the better idea... as always.

Peter

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 24 Jan 2001 2:09 pm

Keith, I'll go under cost on this for you at $185, check the buy/sell. It would be a good starter for that price.

Ted

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 25 Jan 2001 5:02 pm

Ted,

Regarding Janet Davis -- to my knowledge the ONLY thing she does on her 'Delux' Regal is replace the stock cone with a Quarterman -- that's ALL. I doubt she does any set up at all and I doubt that she replaces anything else.

Keith Doot · Post by **Keith Doot** » 25 Jan 2001 7:15 pm

Mr Smith,
Thanks for the offer. I am debating whether to buy a stock instrument or hold out for a while. I am not familiar with the Johnson line at all. How does it compare with the Regal models 35 and 45?

Respectfully;
Keith

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 25 Jan 2001 9:15 pm

If the Sheerhorn is a Rolls Royce, Then the Regal is a Ford Taurus and the Johnson is a GEO Storm.
Regal is a step up, and if you don't intend to ever buy a US built instrument, then the Regal with a Quarterman Cone, 14 Spider, and new nut and saddle ($100) before labor (Buy Paul Beards video on the set up), will get you a pretty fair sounding instrument for around $650.
The Johnson would simply be a very inexpensive way to get started.
I'll put it on the hotsheet.

Ted

Keith Doot · Post by **Keith Doot** » 25 Jan 2001 11:35 pm

Mr Smith,

Thanks for your assessment. I am currently using an old student guitar with a nut extension to practice with. I proved to myself that I am willing to invest the time in learning to play dobro, so I would like an intermediate set up like the Regal I think. I'll just have to save and get the basic instrument and do the upgrades as finances allow.
Thanks again for your generous offer.

Keith

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 26 Jan 2001 10:44 am

Keith,

I don't know exactly how much money you have to spend, but Ted has an excellent deal right now on his Hotsheet:
http://www.melobar.com/specials/specials.doc

Almost half-way down, you'll see a Melobar with the Raybay body for $875. It's the last one at that price.

I tried out the Johnsons and Regals, but ending up buying a Melobro very similar to this (it's a Raybay body). There's just no comparison between the tone.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons