Advice on Knee Levers ??

John O Keeffe · Post by **John O Keeffe** » 25 Jan 2004 11:54 am

Apart from the standard 4 Knee levers if I were to add two more levers on the E9 what changes could I add and why?
what are the most popular after the standard 4?

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 25 Jan 2004 2:07 pm

John, you may need to be a bit more specific on what changes you have. I know that raising and lowering the E strings are pretty much standard. But, opinions may vary on the 3rd and 4th lever. What I would consider my 5th lever would be the one that lowers the 5th and 10th 1/2 tone. Moving back 2 frets from the pedals up position and engaging that lever gives a nice 7th or 9th chord position. Some people may consider this lever 3rd or 4th in importance. The reason I put it 5th is because there are other ways to play many of same licks using other pedal combination. But they involve sliding the bar, which produces a slightly different tone than using the lever, at least in my opinion.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 25 Jan 2004 2:25 pm

B's to Bb ( with reverse pulls for pedals up if needed)
and G#'s to G
I do a lot of minor stuff and having both of these is really useful to me, I can't believe I didn't have those G's before, in addition to the other ways to do minors these add some big minors, as I want to hear them.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 25 January 2004 at 02:26 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 25 Jan 2004 5:26 pm

Assuming you have the following Standard E9th knee levers:

LKL raises the E's half a tone

LKR lowers the E's half a tone

RKL raises 1 a half a tone and lowers 6 a whole tone

RKR lowers 2 a whole tone with half-stop and 9 a half a tone

I would make the 5th knee lever lower 5 and 10 a half a tone (B's to Bb)

I would make a 6th lever (LKL2) raise one and 7 a half a tone AND; change RKL as follows:

Raise 1 a whole tone; raise 2 a half a tone; and keep the lowering of the 6th string a whole tone.

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 25 January 2004 at 05:29 PM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 26 Jan 2004 4:58 am

I think that other than the E raises and lowers and the 2nd and 9th string lowers, the 4th standard should be lowering 5 and 10 to Bb. This is a great change and very useful. Although you can get some of the same stuff using the B pedal & F knee lever and sliding back a fret you can't use the 1st and 2nd strings in the mix when you do that and there are a lot of great stuff there. Also on the all pull guitars where you can lower against the raise it's very useful. I had the 1st string raise but like to pull it with my finger so I don't need that and the 6th string lower to F# is great too but I had it for a while some years ago and never used it that much. All in all, it's what you want to do with your guitar that makes the choice of what knee levers you need to do it. I guess everyone has their own likes and dislikes and I stated mine...Who's next?

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

John O Keeffe · Post by **John O Keeffe** » 26 Jan 2004 9:54 am

Thanks for all the advice,certainly the idea of lowering the B's a half tone seems a good idea.I am interested in knowing what chordal possibilities any of these levers can give me..............JOHN

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 26 Jan 2004 11:54 pm

Two additional levers would be 1 extra LKL & 1 LKV

<pre>

LKL2 LKV
LKL LKR A B C RKL RKR
F# ? ? G#
Eb ? ? D/C# ?
G# ? ? A ?
E F ? ? Eb F# ?
B ? ? C# C# ?
G# ? ? A ?
F# ? ? G#
E F ? ? Eb ?
D ? ? C# ?
B ? ? C# ?
</pre>

The RKR might have different changes depending on what is on the LKL2 & LKV

I have put the 2 & 9 lower to C# on RKL because it is used a lot together with lowering E's to Eb on LKR. You would not loose any combinations by swapping RKR w RKL but the guitar might feel like moving to the right when holding E's-Eb & 2&9-C# for a longer period. This combination has a minor pentatonic scale w the root note on strings 3 & 6.

What I would consider on LKL2 <pre>
strings & changes

1 & 7 F#-G
1 F#-G
1 F#-G, 2 Eb-D
3 & 6 G#-G
6 G#-G
4 E -F#
</pre>

What I would consider on LKV <pre>
strings & changes

1 & 7 F#-G
10& 5 B -Bb
3 & 6 G#-G
6 G#-F#
4 E -F#
</pre>

What I would consider on RKR <pre>
strings & changes

1 & 7 F#-G
1 & 7 F#-G, 2 Eb-D
6 G#-A#
10& 5 B -Bb
3 & 6 G#-G
6 G#-F#
4 E -F#
8 E -F#
</pre>

Changes are not listed in any particular order. The list includes some changes mentioned and some not. It is far from complete as there are several other changes that are useful as well.

Try asking

what changes do I want instead of what chords does this change give me and you are one step closer to finding your perfect setup.

Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 26 January 2004 at 11:59 PM.]

John O Keeffe · Post by **John O Keeffe** » 28 Jan 2004 3:08 pm

Thanks Bengt...........still can't make up my mind though!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 28 Jan 2004 3:47 pm

John it would be helpful to actually see your copedent rather than just say "4 standard levers". Since where they are placed is not neccesarily standardized.
This would help for seeing the logic of body movement.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 January 2004 at 01:35 AM.]

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 28 Jan 2004 9:51 pm

John,

I think you shouldn't add knee levers just because of having more.
Wait untill you need a specific change and then is the right time.

Just my personal opinion

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Jan 2004 11:16 pm

Six is too many for me. Five is all I can handle. It's my limit.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 29 Jan 2004 4:19 am

I would drop both B's one half tone on one lever AND I would drop both G#'s a full tone with the other.. I use those #3 and #5 string full tone drops on PEDALS 4 and 5 ALL the time and they are a major part of my copedent. bob

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 30 Jan 2004 6:52 pm

Bobbe Lee, I'm with you on 5 knee levers.

I saw Reece in 1968 play his S12 MSA with 5 knee levers and 5 or 6 pedals.

With his Bb major 7th tuning, he didn't miss a trick......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/