Tuning the Bb on C6

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 17 Jan 2004 2:56 pm

I'm finding that my ears are wanting two different Bbs on my C6 neck. The Bb that I want for Cm7 or F11--pedal 6 plus the 4th-string raise--is distinctly sharper than the Bb my ears want for C7--no pedals and the 4th-string raise. Am I tuning my E's and A's and the Eb too sweet?

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 17 Jan 2004 4:28 pm

Dave, assuming the A->Bb pull sounds good with the Cm7, try not to flatten your E notes beatless. Try to flatten them 7-8 cents (instead of a beatless 15) and see if the C7 chord sounds ok. If it does, then you may need to accept some slight beating. I have, and I don't think it's that hard to get used to.

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Jeff's Jazz

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Jan 2004 7:12 pm

Dave,

I can equate with you. In fact it is not only the Bb's. I find this to be true in a number of situtations not only on the C6 neck but the E9th neck. Of course the F#'s scenario (A and B up versus down), is known by most pedal steel guitar players.

I find that the G note when I split pedal B with the G# to F# change NEEDS two settings to satisfy me. IE, the A7th G is NOT the same note as the G in E minor. If I make the A7th sound good, the E minor is too flat. If I make E minor sound good, the A7th is too sharp for my ears.

I attribute this to the fact that most of us PSG players tune JI or close to it. This then causes certain combinations to sound out of tune IF other combinations sound in tune. This of course does not manisfest itself if we tune everything straight up, since there are beats between ANY two notes in this form of tuning (save octaves).

One more classic case is string 5 and pedal 5 on C6. If I tune it so the "9th" chord sounds good on strings 2, 3 and 5, then the major third F# and A on strings 4 and 5 sounds awful. So I avoid playing these two notes together.

oh well

carl

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 17 Jan 2004 7:37 pm

Thanks, guys. Jeff, your solution has worked to my satisfaction. Carl, you're right.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Jan 2004 7:57 pm

Carl. When I think of this I try to think that I CAN make my ears accept a non tempered tuning and that in these 25 some years playing steel that is like playing a "perfectly tuned" piano with the proper amount of "beats" in the intervals. I know we've discussed this.

If a person tunes an "improper amount" of beats into one interval on their psg, then they can assume correctly that there will be an equally "improper" amount of them on another when and if they eventually play it..

I don't tune beats out of ANYTHING except octaves, and tonight like thousands of others I "hope" I play the right amount of beats in every third and fifth.

That's all I can do.

Usually I come closer than the guitar players I work with.

EJL

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 18 Jan 2004 7:59 am

I tune Bb beatless to the Eb with P6
I use that combination a lot for a sus4 or the open Cmi7 and I notice when the Eb and Bb don't play nice together.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Post by **b0b** » 18 Jan 2004 9:35 am

Eric, whose post was shorter than usual so I read it

, wrote:

Usually I come closer than the guitar players I work with.

Ain't that the truth! Sometimes I think that guitar players are trying to push the limit of what human ears will accept as music.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/Officeb0b.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
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