Update on Emmons Guitar Company

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 Jul 2014 7:38 am

Jerry Jones wrote:Anybody got a list of all the "official" Emmons dealers?

Curious to find out. Bobbe cut 'em loose..

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 16 Jul 2014 1:36 pm

Knowles, Cass and Stafford spring to mind

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 16 Jul 2014 5:53 pm

Ed Fulawka told me years ago that he makes far more money per hour sharpening chain saw blades than building steel guitars. He's right.

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 16 Jul 2014 7:40 pm

Not to hijack the thread but to echo Kevin's point, noted luthier Roy Noble* makes more money making Go-Bar Radius Dishes for Bracing Acoustic Guitars than guitars themselves.

*--(Despite all the talk about that 1935 Martin D-28 that now belongs to Tony Rice, what you're hearing on record from Clarence White is probably a Roy Noble dreadnaught.)

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 17 Jul 2014 3:49 am

I've built a couple pedal steels, one, I made everything, the other I had some parts made at a machine shop. The machine shop is owned by a friend of mine, so I got a pretty good price. Basically he sold the parts to me at his cost.

The guitar I built everything for took me a long time, and were it not for the fact that I enjoying building things, it would have been a time and cost disaster!

The guitar I farmed much of the machine work out on, I had a lot of money in. If my wife knew how much, she would probably go buy the new suv she has wanted for so long.

Granted, I never built either one to sell. Which is a good thing, I could have never gotten my money back. I don't know how anyone could make much money building these things. I am really impressed at anyone who can!

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 17 Jul 2014 9:29 am

Buyimg/trading used guitars that are in top shape is where you make a profit. Not much mark up on new guitars. It's a 24/7 business that requires a lot of one on one public relations work. Having players that'll help send you buyers also helps. It can be done.

Shawn Sprouse · Post by **Shawn Sprouse** » 26 Jul 2014 1:52 pm

Here is the last letter I received from NCDOJ. I tried calling Emmons again last week and left more messages. Still no response. I have been more than patient with these folks. I am off work this week and will be filing with the court. I also attached a piece that talks about the "Writ of Execution". Anyone else that is having this problem may want to do the same thing. Once again this could all have been avoided by honesty. I was lied to repeatedly from the very beginning and the lies continued for over 2 years. Anyone that isn't familiar with what is going on in my case can look back at my previous post. Once again if Ron and Rebecca would have said it will take 2 years to complete or even 3 for that matter, they wouldn't have heard from me until close to date of completion.They instead lied to me about date of completion along with many other things. I will also post the emailed receipt i received from them as well as the check that was cashed. I will remove some info from the check for obvious reasons.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 26 Jul 2014 2:39 pm

Shawn, with your written permission, may I send a copy of this to the NC Secretary of State?

I think they should know, and investigate to possibly suspend or withdraw Emmons license to do business.

No one else should have to go through what you have so far. My opinion is it's time to end this, as much as I have always wanted one, it's time to bring this to an end.

Please let me know.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 26 Jul 2014 11:03 pm

Larry Henson wrote:I sympathize with you guys having problems with the Emmons Guitar Company. Here is my experience of an order, two years ago, when I ordered a new Legrande III. I sent in my order and deposit and was quoted a 6 month delivery date. I think it was 6 months and about 2 weeks later that I was notified my guitar was ready for shipping. I sent the balance due and received the guitar in about 5 days. Ms. Rebecca told me the two week delay was due to a critical family illness.
I don't know what happens with the order process in dealing with companies. Maybe it could be a problem with communications between buyers and sellers or a who sends the cash first situation.
This is only MY experience in dealing with the Emmons Company. I hope that the ones having problems can get it worked out. Emmons Guitars are consistently very good and desirable pedal steels. This is only my experience for whatever it is worth!!!
Larry

I think the major problem is that he paid it in full up front and you only paid the balance when they said the guitar was ready. Once they have someone's money, they can keep pushing his guitar aside to make others (so they can get cash flow), sell parts that should have gone on an "in process" guitar. After they have your money, they have no real incentive to honor their obligations on time. I have a friend going through this exact same type of thing with another party. A year and a half, and no info on when he will get his guitar.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 26 Jul 2014 11:06 pm

Kevin Hatton wrote:Steady production in any steel company is way over. It's been said before here. There is no money in making steel guitars. The market is MUCH too small.

And, we have too many builders right now fighting for that small market.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 Jul 2014 3:41 am

I find it interesting, and disturbing, that they have a NO CREDIT CARDS statement in bold print on their invoice.

In past unrelated disputes I was able to get protection from my credit card company. Fraud attempts were resolved thanks to them.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 29 Jul 2014 1:35 am

Richard Sinkler wrote:
Larry Henson wrote:I sympathize with you guys having problems with the Emmons Guitar Company. Here is my experience of an order, two years ago, when I ordered a new Legrande III. I sent in my order and deposit and was quoted a 6 month delivery date. I think it was 6 months and about 2 weeks later that I was notified my guitar was ready for shipping. I sent the balance due and received the guitar in about 5 days. Ms. Rebecca told me the two week delay was due to a critical family illness.
I don't know what happens with the order process in dealing with companies. Maybe it could be a problem with communications between buyers and sellers or a who sends the cash first situation.
This is only MY experience in dealing with the Emmons Company. I hope that the ones having problems can get it worked out. Emmons Guitars are consistently very good and desirable pedal steels. This is only my experience for whatever it is worth!!!
Larry
I think the major problem is that he paid it in full up front and you only paid the balance when they said the guitar was ready. Once they have someone's money, they can keep pushing his guitar aside to make others (so they can get cash flow), sell parts that should have gone on an "in process" guitar. After they have your money, they have no real incentive to honor their obligations on time. I have a friend going through this exact same type of thing with another party. A year and a half, and no info on when he will get his guitar.

100% correct. Why would anybody pay full price, up front, to a company known for its cash flow problems?
Why buy a car, without a test drive? That seems a bit like eating your groceries BEFORE you pay for 'em. I'd like to see the "Emmons Guitar Company" name around for a long time. I don't think there's any higher compliment for a guitar, than a "Wow--sounds almost as good as my old push/pull."

As Joey points out, the "no credit cards" statement is a huge red flag. And, to paraphrase Richard, there's too many people building steel guitars. I still don't get the point, in paying a suspicious company that kind of money, up front.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 29 Jul 2014 2:16 am

I still don't get the point, in paying a suspicious company that kind of money, up front.

There are many that do not know of the current Emmons company issues. Thus, going on the good name of the past company, someone could get caught in this as this guy has.

Doug Palmer · Post by **Doug Palmer** » 29 Jul 2014 6:48 am

Sadly, even if you win a lawsuit against them they can't be forced to pay. A property lien is your only recourse, and that could take decades to resolve. Cheaters know the laws and how to use them, honest people don't. I hope you get your money back. If you get a guitar at this point it may be an Emmons but not the quality you expect. There is a brand new Emmons LeGrande II in a local guitar store here for sale that doesn't have a control panel and a decal instead of the plastic logo badge. The mica is bubbling in some spots and cabinet drop is unacceptable. As I said, they may give you a guitar, but at what quality level. This Forum had several similar situations. There are many more here locally that don't get the publicity. Good luck Shawn.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 29 Jul 2014 7:55 am

According to the Emmons quote, "Shawn stated he wanted to pay in full." Why???

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 29 Jul 2014 8:28 am

The last new Emmons I saw belonged to a local guy around here. He ordered it in latter part of 2009 and got it in Jan 2012 I believe. The workmanship was shoddy but guitar played good and sounded like a million bucks. I love Emmons guitars an hope they don't go by the wayside.

Shawn Sprouse · Post by **Shawn Sprouse** » 29 Jul 2014 11:04 am

1. Dickie I don't want anything to jeopardize my case at this time. when my case is over you are welcome to use this info and I will be glad to help you get this company shutdown.

2. Why would someone pay in full...Good question and here is my answer. Years ago I had a New LG II and Dave Robbins had his III and said to me at the Second Fiddle in Nashville, man you need to get you one of these and I told him I was happy with what I had at the time. I loved it! A few years later I got out of playing in Nashville and traveling and I sold it. At the time my opinion of the Emmons Company was good. This was in 2000-2001. I had an old Sho-Bud that I played around the house. I finally started playing out again in 2011 and said if I was going to play, I want to play the best and was going to get the III that Dave had tried to talk me into getting many years before. My experience from years ago was good and unfortunately at the time my funds were limited and I knew if I didn't part with the money then, I wouldn't have it for long because I would use it for other things.So yes against better judgement I did send them the money for several reasons. My experience from the past being good,the company being in business a long time,Them telling me it will be a 3 month project and only taking 68 hours to build( which came from Rebecca),I had the money in hand,and for several years I have been out of the steel guitar loop so I was going on past info. I did contact Dave before I sent the money and he said to me, if you get one let me get it for you. I tried to get back in touch with Dave when I was ready to buy it and he was in California at the time. also I did a search for Emmons Dealers at that time and all that came up was the Emmons Guitar Company. Steel Guitar Nashville use to be a dealer and I was shocked that they weren't anymore. Apparently as I catch up on things Bobbe had a dispute over paying upfront for the guitar before he could sell it. At least that was my understanding of it. Anyway there was a lot that played into my decision. Either way it doesn't make it right for a company to take money and not supply the product and anyone that takes up for a company that does this isn't any better than the one doing the deed. Right is right and wrong is wrong!!! Morales have declined and the real victim here is the Emmons name and what use to be the best there was. I will be ok whether I get the money back or not.It is a shame the music biz is full of sharks and we shouldn't have to worry about them when buying an instrument. That is the case these days. I will never use another Emmons product as long as live and If this guitar shows up tomorrow, it will be sold immediately. I see a lot of folks these days that play and I assure you everyone I meet I tell this story to. So I will get my justice one way or another. Also being an LLC in North Carolina isn't as safe as other states. I can go in and seize assets to sell if the company doesn't make good on it within 10 days of a judgement. I am prepared to do this. It is called a "Writ of Execution". If you would like to see how this works, Florida has the same thing. Just google couple seizes Bank of America. I will add this too. I did tell Ron that he could keep the $465.40 which was a non-refundable deposit.....and we would call that my stupid tax, just send me back the rest. His response was I have to sell the guitar before you get your money back. I pointed out no where in the agreement did it say that. I said fine we can settle it in court. His response "then why don't we just build your guitar!" Which said to me, he still didn't have it started. Anyway maybe that cleared up some questions. Dickie after this is over I would be happy to work with you to shut this place down!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 29 Jul 2014 11:25 am

Wow, this is an interesting article on a writ of execution in NC, from the point of view of the defendant in the case:

http://www.duncanlawonline.com/what-is- ... execution/

This state of affairs, both with Shawn's money loss and the apparent demise of a great brand, is tragic all the way around.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 29 Jul 2014 3:00 pm

Shawn, I'll wait to hear from you. Thanks for the reply.

Billy Sims · Post by **Billy Sims** » 29 Jul 2014 3:04 pm

Surely someone here on Steel Guitar Forum lives close enough to Burlington N.C. to check on the state of the company?

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 29 Jul 2014 4:43 pm

Sad! How many players have longed for and hoped they could acquire their dream
guitar someday that their guitar heros played? I can't imagine the frustration and disappoint reading this topic.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 29 Jul 2014 4:55 pm

Erv Niehaus wrote:According to the Emmons quote, "Shawn stated he wanted to pay in full." Why???

But whether or not he wanted to pay before the guitar was done, or Emmons wanted up front payment, Emmons should have honored their commitment. It's too bad that the Lashley's weren't capable of keeping the business running smoothly. If there is nobody to step up and take over, then I think it's time for the Emmons company to throw in the towel. It's really a shame.

Of course, The lawsuit will probably take care of that.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 29 Jul 2014 8:05 pm

Jack Stoner wrote:
I still don't get the point, in paying a suspicious company that kind of money, up front.
There are many that do not know of the current Emmons company issues. Thus, going on the good name of the past company, someone could get caught in this as this guy has.

Jack, I've met a lot of steel guitar players in the last few years, and most read the Forum, or at least, scan it. I doubt if very many steel guitar players don't know about the "Emmons problems," since a new one pops up every so often, and the mods let it run 4 or 5 pages, before they close the thread. It might as well be the next "sticky."

Gerald Shaw · Post by **Gerald Shaw** » 30 Jul 2014 2:28 am

Yep, blame the victim. Poor guy is out 5G's and he has to defend himself to the Emmons fan club.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 30 Jul 2014 2:34 am

There are still those that do not know, or do not know the extent of the problems.

I recently mentioned it to a friend in Missouri and he had no idea. So there are those that are not aware of problems.

And yes, those that order something and do not get it are not to blame. The entire blame is on Emmons Co (or what's left of it).

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