1953 triple 8 Bigsby Value?

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 28 Jul 2003 12:27 pm

And for those who cannot find or afford an original-we are currently building the very last two triple neck "P.A. Re-Issue" steels-one is already spoken for and that leaves only one left-I dont expect it to be very long before it is taken too as every one we built has been promised before we completed it-Just ask the likes of Herb Steiner,Ry Cooder,Junior Brown,and others

[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 29 July 2003 at 11:22 AM.]

Chris DeBarge · Post by **Chris DeBarge** » 28 Jul 2003 6:55 pm

I love you too Chas, thanks.

[This message was edited by Chris DeBarge on 28 July 2003 at 07:56 PM.]

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 30 Jul 2003 5:16 am

Well, I have "Thelma", the D8 owned by Thelma Boyle. I haven't seen too many doubles--boy this thing is heavy enough! Unbelievable tone! Does anyone know who Thelma was?
DD

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 30 Jul 2003 8:22 am

Well...I have "Thelma", the guitar built for Thelma Boyle. It's a 1959 D8, with 2 pedals on one neck. It's in super nice shape and sounds awesome! As per the value of these guitars I'm with Mike--they are getting harder to find, and several have sold in that $7500 range (triple necks) a couple of years ago, that I was aware of. If someone wants something so rare and it's the right one--they may have to kick in some extra $$. I also don't think they can be priced so much "per neck" as there are other factors. In a way, I think a double or triple has more utility than a quad, due to the extra weight, and also the fact that most players wouldn't use all four necks--same with Stringmasters. Also as Paul mentioned, other factors are involved such as condition, features, and celebrity attachment--Ray--your's is one of the best--I don't know if you remember, but a few years ago I was working on talking you out of it when you were considering selling in a moment of weakness.
BTW--does anyone know who Thelma Boyle is?
DD

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 30 Jul 2003 10:57 am

When I got "Thelma Boyle" the wood was ruff and all the finish was sanded off-So before refinishing-I decided to have The Irish Woman's moniker removed-I do not know who she is-But I can tell you that I got it from a dealer in California (logical place for Bigsbys to show up)

If the guitar had been all original in finish then I would have left her name on it

[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 30 July 2003 at 01:04 PM.]

Mike Black · Post by **Mike Black** » 31 Jul 2003 4:14 pm

I tried to post a photo. Back to the bench.[This message was edited by Mike Black on 31 July 2003 at 05:16 PM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 2 Aug 2003 6:38 pm

Just spoke with a lifelong steel guitarist and pro-musician.......who spent much of his life in FLorida.
He recalled a story about a steel player for the early day Mel Tillis.....who it's understood, sawed a four neck steel guitar in half in order to make two double necks.
Might that have been Paul Bigsby's THIRD
four neck steel???
Anyone have knowledge of this????

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 4 Aug 2003 10:06 am

Ray-thats the first I heard of that story-We have heard the story that one of the three quads he made was cut up-most likely it was done by a guy named Rudy Farmer from Fresno,CA.-According to Norm Hamlet-He was the guy cutting them up to make single neck student lap steels-I have just seen pics of what appears to be one of the "cut-ups"-A single metal Bigsby neck on a wooden neck plank-On many multiple neck steels-Bigsby would stamp the number of the neck on the tail end-hence several of my triple necks have necks numbered 1,2,and 3-I was told some time ago that one neck numbered "4" showed up on one of these single neck jobs-Bigsby would not have put number "4" on a single neck-I think it is good evidence of the third quad being cut up-Safe to say You and I have the only original Bigsby quad necks in existence

Mike Black · Post by **Mike Black** » 4 Aug 2003 10:47 am

Paul, Steve Brown of Seattle had a 4 neck Bigsby with pedals. To the best of my knowledge it has not surfaced. I never saw the steel. I got a tip that there were some Western Swing 78's for sale at a local yard sale so I went by. I started talking to the elderly lady and she told me her husband played steel. When I asked her what kind of steel he had, she said "a Bigsby 4 neck" with no hesitation. She told me he liked W.S. but played only in church, with an organist. He sold the guitar shortly before he passed on, my guess is this would be the late 70's-early 80's. She thought she might still have his pedal so I left my phone #. A few days later she called me and said she couldn't find the pedal but she did find a Bigsby catalog and tuning guide. I could buy them for 5 bucks, I gave her 35. The tuning guide has evidence of different pedal tunings, hand written. But no proof it was a quad guitar. I can't remember if I asked about any photos.
Another couple odd facts. Tom Morrell's old T10 has 1 neck, the #3 neck, stamped #4. I've often heard that Bigsby built 1 instrument a month, yet Norm Hamlett's, Tom's, and another steel, I've forgotten the owners name, are all dated within a 2 week period in Feb 54.[This message was edited by Mike Black on 04 August 2003 at 11:51 AM.][This message was edited by Mike Black on 04 August 2003 at 11:52 AM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 4 Aug 2003 9:52 pm

Jimmy Roy has a Bigsby neck on a practice board steel. He said he got it on ebay couple of years back. It most likely is from a cut up guitar, but I didn't look for a stamped neck # when I saw it.

B. P. Johnson · Post by **B. P. Johnson** » 6 Jan 2004 2:50 pm

^[This message was edited by B. P. Johnson on 28 April 2006 at 07:08 PM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 6 Jan 2004 3:32 pm

I think Speedy had the first pedal Bigsby. Pete Martinez told me he had Bigsby #2, and he got it fairly soon after Joaquin got his. Joaquin was playing his lap D-8 in at least 1944 or 45, based on some soundie's I've seen.

Pete's guitar was stolen a few years ago, otherwise I could get the date number.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

B. P. Johnson · Post by **B. P. Johnson** » 6 Jan 2004 5:09 pm

^[This message was edited by B. P. Johnson on 28 April 2006 at 07:09 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 6 Jan 2004 11:34 pm

B.P, there are no websites ( at least yet ), except for the one you already know. I have to say, that this forum is undoubtly the best source of information about Bigsby and his work. The problem is, that it's spread all over the many topics ( like this one )and posts during the years. And thanks for information about Noel's Bigsby, I've also suspected, that Noel got his guitar before Speedy.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 7 Jan 2004 1:45 am

For the owner list:

The Johnny Sibert/Sonny Burnette D-8 has a third possible owner in Lloyd Green.

Around 1963, Lloyd wanted his first Sho-Bud, but Shot Jackson was back ordered. To satisfy Lloyd's need of a good PSG, Shot took the Sibert/Burnette Bigsby(which he got from Sonny), and converted it into being a Sho-Bud, by putting in Sho-Bud pickups, changers, two additional pedals(bringing the total from four six), and wooden necks.

He only played it for a few months, though, since he got his "real" Sho-Bud a few months later.

This would certainly be the same guitar, unless Sonny had another Bigsby(though it was technically the property of Webb Pierce). Anyone know how many Bigsby's Sonny had? I'm sure Mr. Green would be interested as well.

It's cool to think that one steel could go from Carl Smith's "Hey Joe", to Webb Pierces "More And More", to the numerous session dates Lloyd would of been doing in the that part of 1963.

Chris Scruggs
[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 07 January 2004 at 01:57 AM.]

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 7 Jan 2004 1:53 am

One more thing about Lloyd and Bigsby's,

The T-8 Joe Vincent played was property of Faron Young. Lloyd was the next steel player for Faron after Joe left, and he played the Joe Vincent steel from 1957 to 1963, when he got the Sibert/Burnette guitar.

Lloyd said the Faron Young Bigsby was 101 pounds in the case, and had ONE pedal on the E9 neck that pulled the two strings. Hows that for impractical?

Chris Scruggs

B. P. Johnson · Post by **B. P. Johnson** » 7 Jan 2004 10:13 am

...[This message was edited by B. P. Johnson on 07 February 2005 at 07:04 PM.]

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 7 Jan 2004 10:27 am

Did any of you guys know Frank Hardcastle, #52, F. D. Hardcastle on the list?

jd

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 7 Jan 2004 8:34 pm

Lloyd said the Faron Young Bigsby was 101 pounds in the case, and had ONE pedal on the E9 neck that pulled the two strings.

...yes Chris; and the strings were originally raised at the keyhead, not the pickup end.

Faron Young bought the T-8 Bigsby from Jimmy Davis of Donelson, TN (nonprofessional player).

Was the original "Hey Joe" by Carl Smith recorded with Johnny Sibert on the two-neck Bigsby? I would not have known___sure sounds like a Fender.

Rick

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 7 Jan 2004 11:42 pm

Jussi/Chas
Looking at your list, I believe Cindy told me Marian Hall had two Bigsbys.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 8 Jan 2004 2:46 am

Rick,

Johnny still played the Bigsby at the time "Hey Joe" was recorded. Johnny gave me the following information a few months ago.

When Johnny went to work for Carl in 1951, he had a National Grand Console. Carl didn't care for the sound of it, and wanted Johnny to get a Fender. Johnny didn't like the feel or sound of the Fender, so they comprimised on the Bigsby. "Hey Joe!" was recorded in 1953, and Johnny didn't sell his Bigsby to Webb until 1954, after the huge success of "Slowly".

After "Slowly" came out, Johnny had pedals put on his guitar. Carl didn't want pedal steel, so Johnny just played the pedal steel at home, and bought a Fender to replace it as his straight steel. He said he never played the Bigsby out of the house after the pedal conversion.

However, he still didn't like the sound and feel of the Fender guitar(he disliked the 22 1/2" scale). Because of this, he didn't play his Fender Dual Professional very long, as he didcovered the Stringmaster soon after(he estimated that he played the Dual Pro for less than six months).

Johnny really loved that Stringmaster. Even though he hasn't played it in 30 years, he still speaks of it with love.

Oh, and you where right Rick, it IS the Stringmaster in "Loose Talk". He first told me he got it around '56, but then remembered the Webb Pierce/Bigsby sell(which was CERTAINLY 1954, due to "Slowly"), and remembered playing the Dual Pro for only a brief spell. He later had Shot Jackson put a pedal on his Dual Pro, so he could have a pedal steel, but replaced it with a brand new Fender 1000 in 1958.

The day after he told me this, he heard "Loose Talk" on WSM, and called to tell me it was 100% the Stringmaster. He said he could really tell that Stringmaster tone.

The steel on "Hey Joe" is certainly bright for a Bigsby, but Carl Smith LOVED treble, and would have his guitar players turn up the high end as much as was humanly possible. The only reason Sammy Pruett played a Stratocaster was because Carl wanted him to get that bright Fender sound. Sammy hated Fenders, and prefered archtop Gibsons and Epiphones.

I also used to think "Hey Joe!" was the Fender, but the "Hey Joe!" session was May 19, 1953. Only the February 18, 1953 and May 19, 1953 sessions have Hal Smith, Velma Smith, Gordon Stoker, Johnny, and Sammy as the band, and this is the band in the Carl Smith box set photo's(minus Gordon Stoker, I assume for publicity/record label reasons, as he was a Jordonaire), where Johnny is playing his Bigsby on his lap with no legs.

Two days after the "Hey Joe!" session, on May 20, 1953, Carl also has this band(plus drummer Ferris Coursey), but it is a duet session with June Carter, and it seems strange to me that the photoshoot would be of Carl alone, and not of the celebrity couple dueting.

The above information was further proven to me when Johnny said he didn't get the Dual Pro until after he sold the Bigsby to Webb Pierce.

I forwarded on everybody's birthday wishes to Johnny, and he got a real kick out of them. He liked seeing somebody out there had the exact same Fenders as he did.

Oh, yeah, we're appraising a Bigsby here, wupps! I'll stop now, before I "out post" Mr. Carver.

Ain't this forum fun?

Chris Scruggs

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 8 Jan 2004 4:43 am

Sure is Chris, and that's some great info!!! I actually was wondering whether it was Sonny Burnette, who had the pedals put on that guitar, since I've never seen a photo of Johnny playing it with pedals. Also, the early promo photo shows the no-pedal bridge on this guitar. Another interesting thing about it, is Buddy Emmons' comment: ".. Sonny Burnett got a Bigsby from Johnny Siebert ( in-54 )and it had split (A & B ) pedals".
And more additions to the Bigsby odd-jobs list; Carl Smith had a Bigsby neck on his Martin and Sammy Pruett had Bigsby PU's on his Epiphone arch-top.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 8 Jan 2004 8:31 am

Wow! Chris, many many thanks for taking the time to relate this detailed history of Johnny's career.

I met Johnny once___at Ernest Tubb's Midnight Jamboree. He was backing Bill Philips on the Fender 1000. He had the same shrill tone as he had with Carl Smith on the Stringmaster.

I'm sure Johnny would not remember an eight year old kid asking him a bunch of stupid questions; but he was very cordial and answered everything that I asked. He has always been my favorite steel guitarist and I've tried to duplicate his sound as closely as possible.

I still play all of Carl Smith's songs on my 26" scale (blonde) triple-eight Stringmaster. Too, I have a (blonde) dual-eight Professional on which I play some of Carl's songs and Jerry Byrd's Hawaiian tunes.

My restored (blonde) nine pedal Fender 1000 (with the polished al-mag frame and wood pedal board) is just like the one that Johnny played, except with one more pedal. Plus, I have a polished aluminum bracket on the pedal board (where the tenth pedal would normally mount) on which I attach my Emmons volume pedal.

"Steel Guitar Hall of Fame" member, Johnny Sibert, is a true legend to me. No one delivered "the Fender sound" as expertly as Johnny Sibert.

Rick

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 8 Jan 2004 7:40 pm

Was Tiny Moore's 5 string Bigsby electric mandolin mentioned yet?

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 8 Jan 2004 8:39 pm

I recently posted access to a photo of Tiny playing the BIgsby with Billy Jack Wills band. My quad Bigsby raises two strings with one pedal on the OPEN E tuning and three more strings on one pedal as well, so that two pedals would give you the complete change from E to A6th. It weighs just 105 lbs in the case; with six pedals and pedal bar.