1953 triple 8 Bigsby Value?

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 23 Jul 2003 8:14 am

Bill Moore.......I've been told it is surely one of the most valuable since it is pristine with NO mod's; no cigarette burns; and still in the hands of the original owener. I've been offered a whopping $3,000 for it by a noted guitar shoppe dealer in Tennesee.
Paul told me he made only three and tried to talk me out of making this one for me as he had to go and have special end plates cast for it and also, stated it was too heavy and therefore impractical. During my twenties, I used to carry this 105# guitar, a Fender Bassman 4x10's, a box containing my Bigsby footpedal and cords plus an Echolette
(substitute reverb)up three flights of outside fire escape stairs to the studio level of KGW Television here in Portland. I did this for three years. It's no wonder I now stand only three feet tall with very, very short legs and really long arms.
It's my understanding that one of our Forumites has one of the original three,s four neck without pedals and also, that the other one (of three) was cut in half to make a couple of double necks, somewhere down in Florida.
Also, many of you likely know this but....
When I saw my first Bigsby pedal steel, I think it was PeeWee Whitewing (not certain about this at this late date)with the Hank Thompson contengent, the thingies that raised the notes, were located in the tuning head. They were round, like a steel bar, and when the pedal was depressed, it was pushed up against the string just before it wrapped around the tuning peg.
By the time I got mine, (several years on his long list) Paul had devised a completely different program and I at first beleived I had been gyped.
If one examines my Black pickup covers, you can easily see the black fine tuning adjustment that sets the amount of raise or drop for a given string. There is one on the 4th string, top outside neck; none on the C#min with chromatics on the bottom two strings; then the Issac's neck that has a total of five black screws.....two operated with one pedal and three screws operated by a second pedal (no splits like we're used to on current E9th set-ups.) On the nearest or bottom neck, three black screws for three seperate strings/pedals.
When compared to other Bigsby pedal models, it's easy to see the pickup covers are polished metal (no paint) and there is a much larger polished metal bracket of some sort that operates the string raises to the right or behind the pickups themselves.
JUSSI: I'm not mechanical but I do appreciate the explanation about how to correct the stiffness in the pedal operation. After receiving my one Rick from Australia with the neck broken off at the body, I truly wouldn't trust any other human being to "ship" or otherwise transport my Bigsby or others to anywhere..........
I do appreciate your offer and the other offers to babysit my equipment......If I couldn't trust a loyal Forumite, just who could I trust? Remember back in the 1960's?
ROBBED? Don't call the police, call a hippy.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 23 Jul 2003 10:51 am

Guitar Center-$9500-too much!-I have sold fine Bigsbys (with pedals) and havent got close to that price-my estimation of the true value is closer to $6000-Hey I collect Bigsbys and I WOULDNT pay that much-I guess the market that I single handedly doubled back in the early 90's has tripled now-and people bitched back then like I was crazy to pay $3000 (for a Bigsby steel with personality attachment)

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 23 Jul 2003 10:55 am

Perhaps P.A. would be "rolling over in the grave" to know that Fender now actually owns his name-dont look for Fender custom shop to be producing any Bigsby re-issue steel guitars-thats my gig-they dont have the parts or moulds-I DO!

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 23 Jul 2003 12:40 pm

Paul......in no way wanting to contradict your position:
I saw a post some time back that triple-8 Bigsby's with several pedals and in top flight condition, were selling for about $7,500 a copy; approximately $2,500 per neck.

Does that sound reasonable to you?

WHERE IS THAT BIGSBY BOOK?

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 23 Jul 2003 2:08 pm

Ray-if that is the Gene Rettig guitar of which you speak-It was sold for that price-I owned it and it was sold through a third party who profited-That was an extremely rare guitar-with 9 pedals and the most fabulous flame maple I have ever seen on a Bigsby-perhaps the last steel that He built! Even still thats two grand less that G.C.[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 23 July 2003 at 03:10 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 23 Jul 2003 9:10 pm

Ah-aa, Gene Rettig, another name, which is not on the list, that'd be the 66th. Paul, do you remember the date ( serial # ) on that one? The date on mine is Jan 26th -63, and the original owner always told his family it was the last PA ever built. [This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 23 July 2003 at 10:11 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 24 Jul 2003 4:30 am

Jussi
I hate to contradict you,but I had the "last"
Bigsby guitar ever built.

How do I Know? Speedy told me Paul Bigsby
said after hearing me play

,Speedy thats the LAST guitar I'll ever build

Edited to Thank Paul Bigsby for building one
of,if not the Greatest Steel guitar of its time and that is still my opinion.

And I'm a Fender guy.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 24 July 2003 at 05:40 AM.]

Mike Black · Post by **Mike Black** » 24 Jul 2003 11:14 am

Price is as price does. Of course a person can scour the countryside and follow every lead, burn up the phone lines, and maybe find one some place and get it for 800. It may take a few years but it may happen. Or they can save the shoe leather and Bromo and go buy the one at GC.
I'm sure others of you rememeber when every music store had a used Fender steel and no one wanted them. 10 years ago I missed a 57 T8 24+1/2" Stringmaster in mint shape with gleaming Tweed case for 650. That guitar would easily sell for 1800 or more now, that's the same kind of increase. And Strats,Teles,Les Pauls, fuggedaboudit! Almost a 10x increase in 10 years.
I never imagined the prices of old stuff would go where they went. Even at todays prices almost every clean original 50's Fender Strat/Tele I see, and I see quite a few every month, will sell within a week. Depending on the model within hours sometime! The point can be argued that "They are standard guitars and there's more standard players then steels" There's tons of 50's factory guitars compared to Bigsby instruments and they still sell like hot cakes.
I'm sure that PA wouldn't be happy that Fender has his company but then again, Bigsby could have just went away altogether. We all know that Fender probably won't produce Bigsby steels. But they built 3 exact replica Tweed Twins, with some NOS parts, for Eric Clapton. So who knows.
Hey Ray, are you including the Quad built for Steve Brown in your count? There's a guitar that has never turned up and I know at least 2 of Lee Knights Bigbsy's are still out there. Someone will find them someday. Maybe they're under the bed next to Elvis' 56 J-200 and Buddy Holly's Strat

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 24 Jul 2003 12:36 pm

I listen and read every word that Mike says & or writes..Its like E.F. Hutton

Mike knows his stuff,and his posts are getting as long as mine.

Your Frank stuff is ready to go my man.

Thanks for the info.

By Frank I mean Sinatra as Mike and myself are big Sinatra fans.

I'll look under my bed and see what I can come up with Mike.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 24 Jul 2003 2:02 pm

Jussi-can you email me your list? I will add anything that I know that you dont have listed down-thanks-PW

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 24 Jul 2003 5:04 pm

How about posting the Bigsby list?

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 24 Jul 2003 9:25 pm

Paul, Chas, my list is just a simple word-document. And being the computer wizard that I am, I don't know how to attach it here. But I'll email it to both of you guys and you can make any corrections, that there possibly needs to be done. And maybe we'll figure out a way to post it here, heck it's not classified anyway

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 24 Jul 2003 10:40 pm

Bigsby-steels (compiled by Jussi)
1. Joaquin Murphy ( 4 )
2. Speedy West
3. Noel Boggs
4. Leon McAuliffe
5. Roland Smiley
6. Leodie Jackson
7. Walter Haynes / Frank Juricek
8. Bud Isaacs
9. Buddie Emmons
10. Ray Montee
11. Johnny Siebert/Sonny Burnette
12. Wayne Burdick
13. Marian Hall
14. Vance Terry
15. Merle Travis
16. Lee Knight ( 2 maybe 3 ?)
17. Thelma Boyle
18. Arnold Nelson
19. Bob White
20. Pee Wee Whitewing ( 2 ?)
21. Lefty Nason/Dusty Stewart
22. Ernie Ball (2)
23. Lee Buck
24. Ray Noren/Hal Clampitt
25. Doyle Boyett
26. Norman Hamlett
27. Maurice Andersson ( 2 )
28. Bob Meadows
29. Chief Mack Thomas ( 2 )
30. Dickie Stubbs
31. Jerry Girard
32. Billy Mize / Larry Petree
33. Jody Carver
34. Pete Martinez
35. Martin Thomas
36. Billy Robinson
37. Billy Braddy
38. Joe Vincent
39. Barney Barnes
40. Gary Stewart/Faron Young/Lloyd Green
41. Eddie Gabbard
42. Ray Myers ( Chas Smith )
43. Triple 10 ( Tom Morrell )
44. Bobby Black
45. Quad pedal w 2x8, 2x10 ( Paul Warnik )
46. Sid Barnes
47. Darryll Johnson
48. Curley Cochran
49. Mike Young
50. Jack Homan
51. Jesse Collins
52. F. D. Hardcastle
53. Bob Tucker
54. Grady Lindler
55. Tommy Varner
56. Jody McAuley
57. Unfinished single 8 woodneck / Ron Middlebrook
58. Ben Jack
59. Gene Rettig
60. Ethel Starr (a steel teacher in Fresno CA who "each time she received a new Bigsby, she would sell her older one to a student, and order a new one. I don't know how many times this happened"...Larry Petree)

Guitars:
1. Merle Travis
2. George Croht / R. C. Allen
3. Hank Garland
4. Smokey Rogers
5. Grady Martin ( singleneck )
6. Grady Martin ( doubleneck )

7. Billy Byrd
8. Keith Holter
9. Merle Travis / Jack Parsons
10. Thumbs Carlisle
11. Jim Webb
12. J.B Thomas ( doubleneck )
13. Gary Lambert ( doubleneck )
14. Doubleneck ( GP’s rare bird )
15. Doubleneck ( modified )
16. Bobby ?
17. Hezzy Hall
19. Jack Rivers

[This message was edited by chas smith on 24 July 2003 at 11:43 PM.][This message was edited by chas smith on 25 July 2003 at 12:08 PM.][This message was edited by chas smith on 25 July 2003 at 03:44 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 24 Jul 2003 11:08 pm

Thanks Chas!! Please note everyone, that they are in no particular order and corrections and additions are welcome. Chas, you may want to edit J.B Thomas on #12, behind Wayne Burdick. That guitar is actually a doubleneck "standard" guitar. ( if you can call a doubleneck with a sixstring neck and a ten string mando neck a standard?? )

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 25 Jul 2003 6:57 am

Whatever you might do, DO NOT MOVE my name from the #10 spot as I have real good company around me. Thanx!

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 25 Jul 2003 7:20 am

Chas
Did you forget Barbara Mandrell? She's prettier than most all of these guys

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 25 Jul 2003 7:35 am

Chas-an impressive list!

-Pee Wee Whitewing did have two triple necks-dont forget Terry Bethel (although he was not the original owner) Ernie Ball had two Bigsbys-he still has his single 10 cherry wood guitar and I previously owned his first Bigsby(a '49 D-8 guitar that you are very familiar with) which has been counterfieted as being someone else's-I know of another triple (raised graphics) that is out in Cali which is very bastardized and cut up-no visable name-I also know where there is a '47 triple 8 with wood necks-I cannot disclose the owners name at this time

If this could be the definitive "Bigsby List" with allowances for a few unknowns yet to surface-it would prove my "left-over tuner bushings theory" as to a fairly accurate estimation of total steel guitar production numbers

Thelma's last name was BOYLE not OBOYLE-I do not know who originally ordered my quad(1954)-it has no players name on front and and does not appear to have ever had one [This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 25 July 2003 at 08:58 AM.]

Mike Black · Post by **Mike Black** » 25 Jul 2003 9:33 pm

Jody, The "Sweetheart of the Steel" had a Wright Custom. Maybe the web site will have a place where owners can list their guitars and the list will grow. I counted 15 of the steels listed and 2 of the guitars that I've seen in person.
There's a 20th Century Guitar Magazine issue that shows a photo of a standard guitar in the Hank Garland style with the name LUKE on the PG that showed up at a Dallas guitar show a couple years ago. There's also a Tenor Guitar I've heard about in my area. Has anyone else heard about the possibility of a "Master Ledger" existing?
The frame house and original garage that was the Bigsby shop are still standing on Phlox St. in Downey. Just a small house in a commercial area near the railraod tracks. [This message was edited by Mike Black on 25 July 2003 at 10:35 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 25 Jul 2003 11:32 pm

Yep guys, that's what I meant when I said I left out few guitars on the list, that I've heard of, but do not know their original owners. Surprisingly many standard guitars were made without personalized pickguards, etc, or they were replaced when the instrument changed hands. PA didn't keep any "business books", but I find it hard to believe he didn't have a list of his work and customers, just for himself. He kept in contact with many of his customers afterwards by sending Xmas cards and such and always wanted to get a picture of the customer playing his guitar on the job. PA also had his own small letterpress printing business, which leads me to believe, that he might have printed his own catalogs.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Jul 2003 4:47 am

Addenda:

Terry Bethel's guitar is the Mike Young guitar, already on Chas' list.

Paul Buskirk in Houston had a double neck Spanish guitar, though I don't know if it was one of the guitars listed.

Lee Jeffries told me of the whereabouts of a Bigsby electric bass, though it's been germed with a non-Bigsby pickup.

Tiny Moore had a Bigsby mando, of course. Were there any others? Seems like there would be.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 26 Jul 2003 5:22 am

Thanks Mike,I thought Barbara had a Bigsby
because Mr.Bigsby told me he was working on one for her.

I remember all too well that day a young Fender Salesman went over the line to.......

8114 E.Phlox St,Downey California and boy what a thrill to meet Mr.Bigsby and that aroma of fresh cut wood.

The frame house and original garage that was the Bigsby shop are still standing on Phlox St. in Downey. Just a small house in a commercial area near the railraod tracks.

Yep,If only that house can speak..Here Mike
Try calling this telephone number for the heck of it. Topaz 2-5036...............

I should remember it,,I called it many times.

Thanks for the heads up. BUT,,Barbara was
in line for a Bigsby after she had her Wright
guitar.

You read many books on history,you should have been born early on when California was
the only place to see and hear the great people we knew. Leo,Paul, Spade, Joaquin, Noel, Tex Williams and all of those GREAT musicians. Nothing is left but the memories.
And no one can take that away from me.

Thanks. edited for spelling[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 26 July 2003 at 07:12 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 27 Jul 2003 1:58 am

Paul Buskirk had a Bigsby mando also, now in the Chinery collection, then there is a mando in Dave Westerbeke's collection, also a guy who played mando in Jack Parson's band ( Al "something" ) had a Bigsby mando. I don't know if Paul Buskirk's double neck is on of the two non-personalised guitars on the list. The GP rarebird-one was showcased years ago in Guitar Player-mag and the original owner was not mentioned. "The modified" doubleneck on the list is one, which I have a picture of, and the Bigsby PU's have been replaced with "demarzio-style" humbuckers ( aargh!!! ). It should be noted also, that Paul Bigsby did a lot of customizing work on other brands of guitars, i.e. Joe Maphis, Larry Collins, Hank Garland and many others had Bigsby custom pickguards and sometimes PU's on their Epiphones and Gibsons.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 27 Jul 2003 2:01 am

Oops, double post, sorry!!![This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 27 July 2003 at 03:02 AM.]

Chris DeBarge · Post by **Chris DeBarge** » 28 Jul 2003 6:18 am

I want a Bigsby so bad. All this talk, I'm going to faint.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 28 Jul 2003 10:17 am

Well Chris, as fate would have it, that guitar is sitting in my studio.