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Topic: D130 vs D140 ?? |
Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2014 3:40 am |
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I did some fender twin mods / rebuilds for a pedal steeler 20 years ago.
He was a big believer in using jbl d140 speakers.
Anybody care to weigh in on the relative merit of d140 vs d130 models ??
Thanks
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 Jun 2014 9:01 am
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The D140 was a bass speaker. It would probably be a tad bit mellower than the D130, which is a guitar speaker. It would probably be like comparing a Black Widow 1502 (which I have in my Nashville 400) and a 1501 Black Widow (which I had in a 2nd NV400 that I had for a while). I prefer the 1502. I would like to have a D140 and D130 to compare them side by side. I would probably prefer the D140.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 21 Jun 2014 9:42 am
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| JBL lists the usable frequency response for the 130 as 5Hz to 6kHz, and the 140 is listed at 40Hz to 2k5Hz, so you lose well over an octave at the high end. If you don't like highs this my be satisfactory to you, but it's a huge cut in the top end for most steel players. |
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Don Griffiths
From:
Steelville, MO
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Posted 21 Jun 2014 4:50 pm
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I had a k145 that I had tried. It was supposed to sound better than the factory 12" speakers in my Twin. I know,now I'm comparing apples with oranges. It did lose some of the highs. With the speaker cabinet it was in it probably weighed close to 75 lbs. It was a bass speaker. I'm sure I never pushed it to its full potential as I wasn't playing much when I owned it. Anyway it did not sound good enough to me to warrant the extra heavy cabinet and space it took up. I traded the cabinet and sold the speaker. The alnico magnet should have sounded better than anything I am currently using, according to everything I've read. I replaced the factory speakers with a Jensen Neo 100 and a Weber California Ceramic 12's. I am extremely pleased with my tone, it is the sweetest I have ever heard out of my amp. Nevertheless I'm looking to improve it still and have 2 D130s I am building some walnut cabinets for!
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28 |
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John Dowden
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2014 10:21 pm
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| The magnet and frame are identical on both speakers. The main difference is obviously in the cone materials. You can always get the D140 reconed to D130 specs if you can lay your hands on a JBL recone kit. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Jun 2014 5:32 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| JBL lists the usable frequency response for the 130 as 5Hz to 6kHz, and the 140 is listed at 40Hz to 2k5Hz, so you lose well over an octave at the high end. If you don't like highs this my be satisfactory to you, but it's a huge cut in the top end for most steel players. |
Dead on. I tried the 140's years ago. It's the best way to muddy up your tone. Went back to the 130's asap. Got that high end sparkle back. The 140 has a ribbed cone.
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"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Jun 2014 8:32 am
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I use a BW 1502, which is a Peavey bass speaker, and was the first BW used in the NV400. It has a ribbed cone. I can gets highs that would slice your ears off. But at the same time, have warmer sounding lows. I couldn't get what I wanted out of a 1501. I would have thought the same would true of the JBL's.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Daryl Thisdelle
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 3 Jul 2014 2:31 pm D-130 & D140
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I use both speakers in my set up, in tuned cabinets. What a nice round sound I get, I get the best of both worlds. They both are great speakers, history does reflect that because of the numbers sold and how many situation they were used in. Many many of either speaker was sold. James I am not sure where you are getting the muddy sound from but I do not get that at all with mine.... Mine are reconed. Wonders why steelers just go with one speaker and ask it to do everything for them when they can't. That's why I have two speakers in different cabs, and both are just a tad different sounding so I get a real round sound everything is represented beautifully. One speaker for me is like walking around on one leg, hopelessly inadequate Just my preference.
Daryl
_________________
Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 4 Jul 2014 4:41 am
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| Daryl, were your speakers re-coned to original specs, i.e. is the D-140 still a D-140? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Jul 2014 5:27 am
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Like Richard, I prefer bass speakers. Long ago, I used D-130s, and they had really sweet mids and highs, but I hated the lack of bass response they exhibited in an open-back cabinet. Decades ago, I could understand the popularity of such speakers, because so many streel players played with screaming highs...Emmons, Myrick, Mooney, Brumley, etc. But nowadays, nobody uses those shrill/sharp tones, and I'm seeing more and more players opt for the fullness and richness of bass speakers.  |
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Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2014 3:00 pm
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Does the d140 have a larger diameter voice coil than the 130 ??
_________________
Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 4 Jul 2014 11:07 pm
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| The voice coils are the same size, Kevin, but the 130 coil is aluminum and the 140's are copper. |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 5 Jul 2014 1:20 am
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| Dave, the frame and magnet are the same on both the 130 and 140, so you can recone a 140 with a 130 kit, right? |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 6 Jul 2014 9:47 am
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| Quote: |
| the frame and magnet are the same on both the 130 and 140, so you can recone a 140 with a 130 kit, right |
Yes you can, either cone kit is the correct fit for all D(F), K, or E series baskets, and a new E130 kit works fine in an old D(F) basket. The basic dimensions of JBL's musical instrument speakers have remained the same throughout, with changes made in materials used and increasingly wider voice coil gaps with each re-design for greater power handling.
Bear in mind that if you put the "300 watt" E130 cone into an old D(F) basket it will still have the power handling limitations - i.e. narrower VC gap - of the older design. |
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Bob Knight
From:
Bowling Green KY
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Posted 6 Jul 2014 1:50 pm
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I have preferred the 140 over the 130 for a lot of years. I never noticed a "muddy" sound, In fact I have had numerous comments about how crisp and full the sound is out my Sho~Bud single 15s.
I have Ds, Es, & Ks.
Bob 
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<b>Rick Johnson Cabinets<b>
<b>Brand X Custom Fiber Cases</b>
<b> John Pearse Thumb Picks, Bars and Strings</b>
"Thankfully, persistence is a great substitute for talent."
— Steve Martin |
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Daryl Thisdelle
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 6 Jul 2014 4:03 pm Jbl 140
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I will state again in my write up that my 140 JBL had been reconed. No it was not to specs and I guess I should have said so. Did not mean to mislead anyone trying to say it was same specs. What I was saying is that it did not have a muddy sound and as others have said after my post they did not find an orignal 140 sounded muddy. . So are you going to send them a pm Cartwright and tell them their post has nothing to do with the subject..Also some one else did the apples to oranges and did you jump on them also...
Daryl
This is what Cartwright sent to me:
You might want to mention this in your post on the Forum as it is kind of "apples to oranges". Your speakers are not D-140s at all, so your post has nothing to do with the subject.
_________________
Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2014 5:22 pm
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a lot of steel players i respect seem to think the 140 is a better fit for heavy C6 playing. i recall Jim Evans (original designer of Evans Amps) saying they tried lots of speakers in the 70's and thought the bass speakers 140/1502 were better - but its hard to convince steel players of that. maybe it was that high end they were after back then like Donny mentioned.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 7 Jul 2014 2:24 pm Re: Jbl 140
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Per Daryl:"What I was saying is that it did not have a muddy sound and as others have said after my post they did not find an orignal 140 sounded muddy. . So are you going to send them a pm Cartwright and tell them their post has nothing to do with the subject..Also some one else did the apples to oranges and did you jump on them also..."
Sorry to piss you off DarYl. I just thought that I should point out to you, in a PM (that's "PERSONAL Message"), that you are not talking about D-140's as your speakers are re-coned with E-130 kits, which would explain why they sound different than a D-140... a totally different speaker. Now, calm down and go play your guitar.
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Daryl Thisdelle
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 7 Jul 2014 3:36 pm Cartwright
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I am not at all upset..I was just pointing out a few things and do yourself a favour do not waste your time telling me what to do...I again will say my speakers were not muddy ....I do not car what you think or say...You have a nice day and grow up...and yes I do know what a PM is and now every one knows what you do in PM's, lolololol once again have a wonderful day....
Daryl
_________________
Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 6:20 am
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Fair enough, thank you Daryl, you really know your stuff...
Now back to the business at hand. I've never liked bass speakers for steel, tried both the 1502 and D-140 in a Twin, just sounded kind of dead. I have friends that use D-140's in blackface Vibroverbs, with good results. Not enough sparkle for me, kind of defeats the purpose of a JBL IMHO. |
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Don Griffiths
From:
Steelville, MO
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 8:43 am 130 voice coils
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Does anyone know if the old D130 voice coils can be modified for more clearance, say to D130F specs? Anyone that does it?
_________________
Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28 |
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Daryl Thisdelle
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 2:39 pm Cartwright Thompson
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Well thank you Cartwright, what a guy, you also know your stuff. Such compliments, lololol
Cartwright I have asked more info on my speakers so I can give you an accurate account of what actually happened to them in the re-con rebuild situation. Hey if I was wrong I do not have a problem saying I was. I was told they were 140's re-coned and will have all the info for you. It's just the way you went about it in the pm to me I found it very rude so I thought lets see where we can take this. Any who has been fun lets do it again some time, have a great day...
Daryl
_________________
Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner |
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Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 8:21 pm
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I took an adventure into speaker reconing one time.
It was a very doable process, but it didn't catch my attention long term.
I mostly did celestions though never did any JBL.
Cool stuff thanks for sharing guys.
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 9:28 pm
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| Quote: |
| Does anyone know if the old D130 voice coils can be modified for more clearance, say to D130F specs? Anyone that does it? |
Both voice coils are basically the same, the 130 series is wound with aluminum, the 140 series with copper. Adhesives have changed, but again I say, it is widening of the gap in the magnet structure itself that is the primary difference in these speakers... |
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Daryl Thisdelle
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 9 Jul 2014 2:30 pm Jbl 140
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I was told the same thing by the guy who re-coned mine, and he has re-coned 500 so far . So Its the very small extra movement in the 140 that sets them apart. Ok what I was told before he recones them (a 140) but puts a 130 kit on it he say he does not really hear a difference from before and after they are re-coned with a different kit, since the major difference is the spacing, between the magnet letting the paper move a little bit deeper, towards the magnet. Do I have this right, Dave?
_________________
Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner |
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