Compensators

David Deratany · From: Cape Cod Massachusetts

What is the preferred setup as to which pedal(s) pull the compensators on which F#s, and what should the tuning offsets be [relative to the open Es] with/wihout them engaged? The offsets mentioned in the VS-II Universal settings don't contemplate the use of compensators, and since I heve them..........

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

David,

I assume the following:

1. You tune JI. (Just Intonation, IE, harmonically pure)

2. Your F#'s (strings 1 and 7) cannot be made in tune with the A and B up, versus down.

If my assumption is correct, there are about 4 ways I know of that players "compensate" for this problem:

(Note: in all 4 cases this requires extra pull rods to be installed on given pedals or knee levers.)

1. Compensate 1 and 7 when the A pedal is engaged. IE, flatten both of them to be in tune with string 5.

2. Compensate only string 7 when the A pedal is engaged.

3. Compensate string 1 with the B pedal and string 7 with the A pedal.

4. Tune string 7 to be IN tune with the pedals down and then Compensate string 7 when the E's are lowered.

Compensate means to tune for NO beats (slow wobble) between the C#'s, A's or B's WITH the F#'s.

Incidently, for players that tune ET (Equal Temperament), no compensators are necessary. A few players including some of the greats now tune straight ET. Most steel players tune JI or somewhere between ET and JI.

carl

David Deratany · From: Cape Cod Massachusetts

Carl, You assume correctly.

I have pedal A pulling string one, pedal B pulling string 7. Should I reverse them?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

NOT necessarily. This might suit you to a tee. It is rare of course but then the PSG is a very individualized instrument. It depends in large part by how you play.

If you find you are happy with this set up, by all means keep it.

carl

David Deratany · From: Cape Cod Massachusetts

Carl, I think I'll switch them, as it will be easy enough to do. I am unconventional already in (some would say) too many ways. Here's one where I can join the mainstream at no great personal sacrifice

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I tune my F# flat (in tune with the pedaled C#) and raise it 15 cents on the lever that lowers my E strings. It's backwards from what other people do, I know, but I'm used to it.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

If you put one on A and one on B, there's always one F# out of tune when you only depress the A OR B alone (which I do often, and expect the 1st and 7th to be in tune with either the B or C# on 5). I put them both on the A pedal and that problem goes away. There is very little stiffness added to the pedal and timing problems can be avoided if the compensators are in the right holes in the changer and bellcrank.

I play out of the B6 (E's lowered), A+B, and NP positions pretty equally, so it's important to me that the F#'s are in tune -- regardless of whether they're the 5th, 6th, or 2nd/9th. I like the 5th intervals for the most important scale tones in the chords I use most often to be beatless -- or nearly so.

That's the solution that's worked for me on some guitars. On others, I don't have serious problems when I don't use them -- so I don't.

That's what I'd suggest: decide whether you hear things you don't like in the dissonance between the F# and the B or C# on the 5th string w/ and w/o the A pedal -- IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR PLAYING. Don't just listen to those notes isolated. They'll sound crappy. Listen in the context of a chord or progression that uses 1 and 7 for melody or chord tones. See if you can tune all combinations so that it's ok for all. REMEMBER what you find on one guitar may not be true for all guitars. Some detune just the right amount to come close enough -- others don't.

If you do decide to compensate, I'd go with both on the A pedal -- but that's just me.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 January 2004 at 09:14 PM.]

David Deratany · From: Cape Cod Massachusetts

Thanks, Larry. I've noted what you said. All these ideas will eventually help me find out what works best for me. I am not surprised that there seems to be more to it than meets the eye.

Greg Vincent · From: Folsom, CA USA

If your 7th string compensator is on your A pedal, then you get no compensating effect when you use the B & C pedals together. The root of that 2 minor chord (the 7th string) will be out of tune. -GV

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

What if there could be a way to flat the C#'s only when the B pedal was pressed, but the 10&5th string B note would remain unchanged when only Bpedal was pressed.

Bengt

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