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Topic: Bit Rate vs Fidelity |
Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2014 7:34 am |
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A friend & I are doing some distance recording and using different software and have been trading audio files, both mp3 & .wav. We got to talking about bit rate the other day so I thought about asking my forum brothers about it. Years ago, conventional wisdom was that the recording bit rate had to be more than double the highest audio frequency to be recorded. Thus the 44,100 bit rate for a 20kHz frequency became standard for 'CD quality' recordings. I have always used that rate when recording into my computer DAW's. But, I see software that is capable of higher rates, but have thought that it would be a waste of hard-drive capacity and only create larger files. I also see audio reproduction gear (amps, audio interfaces, etc) that advertise higher than 20kHz performance, and audio recording rates of 48,000 bit rate, and higher. Is there any advantage, fidelity or commercial compatibility or use-ability, to using the higher rates? My friend says his PRO-Tools will convert sample rates to 48k if necessary and that maybe film production facilities use the 48K as a standard. I have always heard that the human ears (even young, and not worn out by time, age, and loud music!) can't hear above 20kHz anyway, so what would be the point of higher fidelity?? (My dog does not like what I play anyway!) Any info/opinions appreciated. Larry Robertson, Denver
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Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Jun 2014 10:52 am
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I record 24 bit/44.1Khz in my home studio (I have Sonar X3). The 24 bit allows for a little more headroom. When I do the final mixdown and Mastering its saved as the CD standard 16 bit/44.1Khz. The conversion (dithering) is done with Ozone 5, my Mastering VST3 program.
For what I do, there is no need for higher bits or frequency. I can record at 32 bit/96Khz if I want, but there is no need for what I do. Plus the higher the bitrate the bigger the "project" files become. And, the 32bit/96Khz, for example, has to be converted to the CD standard 16bit/44.1Khz at the end.
48Khz is for video synchronization. If you are going to use it with video it needs to be 48Khz. |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 27 Jun 2014 5:10 pm
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I have sat through and participated in many listening tests in Nashville and Los Angeles with a lot of high end engineers and watched so many not get even close to being consistent identifying what was high rez and what was not...there is a guy with an absolute accurate double blind test between 320 MP3s and 24 Bit/192 files and no one has been able to beat it. I think an exceptionally built 44.1/16 bit converter will sound better than an average built 192/24 Bit, and to me, bit depth is far more important than sampling rates....I am way more concerning with the performance I am capturing and the mic/pre/eq/compression chain than the converter. I do track solo piano or acoustic performances at 24/88.1, but most of the stuff I do at 24/44.1.
I recently had a session come in with about a 100 tracks at 24/88.1. It was pushing the capability of my Pro Tools HD system, so we printed a mix,then down sampled the session to 24/44.1 and printed a mix and no one could pick which was which...
When people at sessions start talking sample rate, i want to ask how good the song is, cause all the sample rate in the world won't help that....
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John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 28 Jun 2014 8:55 am
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| John Macy wrote: |
When people at sessions start talking sample rate, i want to ask how good the song is, cause all the sample rate in the world won't help that.... |
Actually, it won't matter how good any of your gear is if you don't have good songs.
Rick |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2014 9:32 am
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Higher bitrates and depths exist for signal processing. If you run your processing filters and effects on higher resolution files, any small undesirable artifacts they create are inaudible. The more bits you have to play with, the better the sound when you eventually bring it down to the target format.
It's the same as using a very high resolution camera to take pictures that will eventually be cropped and printed at a much lower resolution.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2014 10:04 am
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Why is 48kHz used for video production? Is there something about matching 48kHz to 30 frames per second or matching to SMPTE? I wonder how the video production houses use a previously recorded 44.1 CD tune, like Waylon's Theme from Dukes of Hazard, would they convert from 44.1 to 48?. Also, what about film production? I know SMPTE was created in the pre video days to sync sound to picture, but maybe everything is different now and the picture is always recorded digitally so audio has to digitally sync to digital video. Anybody know of any good resources to learn this stuff?
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Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2014 5:55 pm
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I often wondered about this also.
Seems like it's a cross between mathmatics and the evolution of the video equiptment itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44,100_Hz
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 6:14 am
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Hey Bud, great article in Wikipedia! Thanks for posting it. Larry
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Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 10:30 am
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Very Cool! I did not know that the 44.1 kHz standard came from VCR tape machines.
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The sample rate is composed as follows:
NTSC:
245 × 60 × 3 = 44,100
245 active lines/field × 60 fields/second × 3 samples/line = 44,100 samples/second
(490 active lines per frame, out of 525 lines total)
PAL:
294 × 50 × 3 = 44,100
294 active lines/field × 50 fields/second × 3 samples/line = 44,100 samples/second
(588 active lines per frame, out of 625 lines total) |
Now it makes sense! Thanks for the link, Bud.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 9:14 am
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Interesting, way back I read somewhere that if I wanted real good audio quality, maybe the best I could get at home , and I did not have a 15 IPS reel to reel, it was said to record audio in the SP mode to a VHS recorder. How about that , but I didn't t know why.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 9:40 am
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I did a couple of cassette albums in the '90s on a Beta HiFi recorder. The sound quality of the original recordings was stellar.
My Beta VCR broke down and the steel guitar album was lost forever. A friend re-digitized the other album back from a second-generation cassette, and it's still available on my Bandcamp site.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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