Sho-Bud Lovers?

Richard Tipple · Post by **Richard Tipple** » 27 Dec 2003 9:39 am

It seems after reading through many of the post on the subject of Sho-Buds, they have that sound only Sho-Buds can produce.
But there are always the issues of mechanical problems,tuning,wear & parts failures.
It almost seems to me that the sound produced is not worth the mechanical up-keep.
I have never played a pro-model Bud, but I would like to add one (S-10 LGD) to my collection.
Am I wrong on the above issues ?

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 27 Dec 2003 10:21 am

Am I wrong on the above issues ?

Yes.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 27 Dec 2003 11:35 am

I respectfully disagree with Ricky who is certainly more of an expert than I am. I have recently sold a Pro III with incredible sound . Although it sounded beautiful,it was always too tempramental for me in its tuning stability. It was in perfect lightly played cond,set up perfectly and played soft,sweet and solid ,but lacked tuning stability. I have found similar issues with an older Pro 1 guitar also. I love Sho Buds but would be afraid to use one as my main guitar because of these experiences. A LOT of guys will play nothing else and have NO issues of ANY kind with Sho Bud mechanisms,so I would say a few of steel players who have quit playing Buds may have gotten guitars that were not representative of all Sho Buds. They sure do ALL sound good tho' !!! bob

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 27 Dec 2003 1:03 pm

I suspect the tuning issues are more for D-10's, but on the other hand I love my Pro-II
And LDG will have more mass versus string tension load. And Lloyd still plays his.

I vote with Ricky.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Dec 2003 2:04 pm

This is why Duane Marrs custom shop is swamped with his Marrs conversion. It totally stabilizes the guitar. Body reinforcer added. They play beautifully. www.duanemarrs.com

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 27 Dec 2003 2:11 pm

"Although it sounded beautiful,it was always too tempramental for me in its tuning stability".

I have a Pro 111 Custom and an LDG. Both hold their tuning superbly. I never heard Lloyd anything less than 100% in-tune. A little bit of occasional maintenance is all that is needed.

KB

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 27 Dec 2003 2:51 pm

After 24 years of HARD constant use, my ProIII still returns true ever time. I adjust my pedal throws minutely from gig to gig, set to set, and the fluctuate minutely due to physics, rather than mechanical inconsistencies. I've had it apart once ten years ago to clean out all the road grime, and gunk. I found that no parts had worn appreciably. My front apron bowed out when i left it in the sun once 12 years ago, and I had to adjust the axle carriers.

Not playing them is their worst enemy. I can't think of more than a two week period in about 20 years that mine hasn't gone out and made money. It's held up perhaps better than I have..

I happen to think that the "basket models" have dozens more "rub points" that I believe require more lubrication, and on MY Professional model, the axles are two piece, which I don't consider as "solid" as either the PII-III, OR the solid axle basket models.

Regardless of the model or make, disuse or intermittent use is the biggest enemy of moving parts.

Maybe, the more modern makes and models have had the foresight to realise that most of these things don't get played very much. Can't fault them for becoming abreast of the times.

More power to 'em, I say.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 27 December 2003 at 02:53 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 27 Dec 2003 3:11 pm

Eric.. good point. I must say the Pro III custom I had did NOT get much use. My MSA S- 10 guitars got used more as I felt they were a little more roadworthy and I never liked the Double 10 body of the Pro III... maybe if I would have made the Pro III my main squeeze for a prolonged period of time I may have felt differently,, I still like the way the MSA guitars played and stayed in tune. No knock against ANY Sho Bud or Sho Bud players of course. They are superbly crafted and beautiful sounding steels.I just never got cozy enough with mine,and it just seemed to fight me a little more than MSA guitars did in the mechanism/tuning realm bob

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 27 Dec 2003 3:26 pm

How many of you still drive a 30 yr old car??All things considered the old Sho-Bud holds it's own with any guitar.Today I upgraded a Pro111 to a Super Pro changer system. I have rebuilt hundreds of SHO-BUDs over the years and most owners prefer to do that instead of changing brands. My Van has 250,000 miles on it and I love it. A little 'Oiling and Squeaking" and most Steels never die. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 27 Dec 2003 3:27 pm

I do find it changes when there is a strong long term temperature change,
but not during normal playing cycles.
This is in parallel with most other instruments in the same space.

I have a 1957 Gibson J-50 guitar, and it sounds better than any new Gibson I have tried. If a wood instrument gets played it ages well and sounds better over time.

My mandolin is aged 91 this year and it sounds real sweet. If it changes pitch a bit as the temerature drops 20 degrees, I still wouldn't care.

My Bud is says Sept 81, so I guess 22 years old is a drop in the bucket.

But the idea of getting Duane's body reinforcers seems pretty good.
Mebe I'll get it.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 December 2003 at 04:16 PM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 27 Dec 2003 4:06 pm

now I know why Lloyd Green, sounds so aweful and out of tune,he plays an old Sho~Bud and it`s not even modified.I should have known better.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 27 Dec 2003 4:18 pm

Damir ROTFL

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 27 Dec 2003 6:58 pm

My 73 Pro-II plays smooth as butter,
stays in tune and has "that"Sho~Bud sound
that some of us prefer.Oh yes,and its
NOT FOR SALE at any price!!Take my wife.............please

------------------
Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 09 May 2004 at 06:53 AM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 27 Dec 2003 7:23 pm

WEll to further my statement.
I don't mean to generalize and there are many makes of the Shobud's that I don't care for as the tuning stability can be a issue...>and I'm mainly taking issues with alot of the changers and pulling systems with certain materials used; AFTER the Pro II.
It's quite detailed as to why; as the mechanisms had small changes almost every year.....as every Shobud I've encountered was a little different from Bud to Bud; even the same models.
Damir; actually Lloyd's Original LDG has been modified....by Mr. Shobud(Duane Marrs) and just a few things here and there but not his whole system.
And this is true for any pedal steel; as upkeep and tweeking is very important through the years.....and if any player says he doesn't ever have to tweek a nylon tuner here or a stop there or a whatever here and there...than he hasn't gotten to the level of proper intonation yet...but he will soon find out that even the newest of new pedal steels; need tweeking all the time....which is inharent for pulling and bending strings and moving parts in all temperature situations.
Just some pedal steels need less tweekin than others because of their superior mechanics; but I would for sure give up superior mechanics for a great sound> ANY DAY.......and I'm pretty dang sure Lloyd Green feels the same way.
If you have a Shobud that is giving you some problems with it's consistancy....>send it to someone to make it right or upgrade it...or ask questions of why or email a knowledgable Shobud fella to help you work out the prob....as any problem can be made better.
Ricky

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 27 Dec 2003 7:44 pm

Ricky you da man ===
My Bud is professional bought in 73,. has never been to the shop for any reason. I have turned it on end and cleaned it as per Jeff Newman's way to clean and oil, a couple of times.
I can set it up on Tues. nite in quitman. Play it for 5 hours, cover it co,me back Fri. nite, tweek 3 5 check the C6 neck and play it for 5 more hours.
The thing that seems to change is weather or temp. change, then you may have to do more tunning.
Sound my wife says it sounds like a dream.
After practicing today and recording, we set on the couch and heard the play back she set next to me and it was worth while. I think she is my best fan, I think she would part with me before she would let me sell the bud.

enough said.

ernie

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Dec 2003 8:47 pm

Just one more thing. I have to agree with Ricky. ANY steel needs to be periodically taken in and cleaned, lubed and tweeked to work accurately. Although I own a Marrs custom retrofit I have played orignal mechanics Sho-Buds (Gary Morse, Dan Dugmore, Lloyd's LDG) that played fabulously and aside from some cabinet drop were smooth and accurate. Why? Because people like Duane Marrs, Jeff Surratt, and Ricky Davis set them up. I am firmly convinced that its all in the person that sets them up and a regular maintance schedule to keep them playing accurately. Duane says Sho-Bud originals need periodic maintenance to keep them tight and accurate and he still doesn't think they equal modern mechanics. I have my guitars cleaned and looked at once a year.

Wayne Baker · Post by **Wayne Baker** » 27 Dec 2003 8:56 pm

I'm a bud lover. I have played a certain 72' tobbaco colored Professional on numerous occasions. That thing pedals easier than my Legrande and has this tone that could melt butter. I would really like to find a red and blond professional like the one Ricky Davis posted earlier.

Live from Uzbekistan,

Wayne Baker

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 28 Dec 2003 1:27 am

Wood neck Shobuds don't like a plain sixth string, as cabinet drop is very apparent. That's why most owners use a wound sixth, and a complicated tuning chart to overcome the detuning effect when strings are raised.

Duane Noom · Post by **Duane Noom** » 28 Dec 2003 5:49 am

I too am a Bud lover. I have a 75 S-10 that I've played for the past 20 years. Sounds sweet and I've never had a tuning issue with it. I just bought a Pro III and only played it a couple of months but sounds as sweet and holds its tuning just as good. And like Wayne said, Ricky, that blonde and red Bud is drop-dead Gorgeous. I'd love to have that done to my little S-10.

------------------
Love them Buds

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 28 Dec 2003 8:18 am

.

[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 05 January 2004 at 02:01 PM.]

Richard Tipple · Post by **Richard Tipple** » 28 Dec 2003 9:17 am

Well I have learned a lot about the Bud on this thread

and I think I want one.
I am still ignorant though about the pro models,, do most of them need the Marrs treatment re-hab?
Also can some of you Bud players explain the models you have,,are the Pro Is single necks or just a model No.
Since I am a true S-10 player, that is what I would be looking to buy, and it seems the earlier model S-10s are the best.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 28 Dec 2003 10:11 am

i'm a ShoBud Lover Too
all i got's a tobacco Professional D10 1970
it's Funky compared to some high steppin steels out there but i love it.
kinda built like a tank

Sounds good to me and i don't have any particular problems w: it
over all it stays in tune but it don't like temperature changes
edited: it would love to get Marrsified -

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 28 December 2003 at 03:05 PM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 28 Dec 2003 10:25 am

Richard T.> Read on this link and you'll then know about ALL Shobud Models> http://www.planet.eon.net/~gsimmons/shobud/models.html
Richard B.....the wood necks have nothing to do with Cabinet drop on a plain 6th string. A plain 6th string will drop on Any guitar as the fingers beside it; when raised; pull down on the axle and the plain 6th string with its mighty unstability will drop.
Players use a wound 6th string for proper intonation; do to the inharent overtones that a plain 6th string creates and the constant stretchability of a plain string of that size.
Richard T.; it's not a must to upgrade the Shobud to the Marrs mechanics, as it is a benefit really> But a shobud can be played perfectly in tune when properly cleaned and adjusted with it's original parts. Sure if something breaks or is worn out....you replace it, as that's a fact with all old anything that has been used well.
Ricky

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 28 Dec 2003 1:20 pm

RD/ I haven't wanted to say anything, but thats where I always thought "cabinet drop" came from. I for one have tried a wound 6th, and a 22, and always came back to the 20. that's the one that needs a little 'tweeking' during the night, but the metal mass that activates the pickup is why I choose it. I DO use a .22 for the 5th on the C6 for the same reason. It gives a lot stronger signal. If they made a 24 I'd use it for the C6th 5th.

Anyhow, in playing with a "new design" for my Professional I've come up with a good way to use the single R/L and the "old" pull rods. The double raises aren't going to be that hard to handle outside the changer, and it's a shame to scrap them just on account of two of them. As I get time I'll post the axle/fingers with long threaded nuts that I've come up with. they're pretty clean. I'm cleaning up the hand drawn designs, and will get to it.

EJL

Steve Benzian · Post by **Steve Benzian** » 28 Dec 2003 2:21 pm

What happens to the "ShoBud Sound" when you change out the pickups? or the mechanics (Marrs upgrade)?