New intermediate PSG

Søren Stevnsgaard · Post by **Søren Stevnsgaard** » 28 May 2014 12:49 pm

Hi Forum

I need some advice on what guitar to look for next. Im playing on an 80's Stage One 3+4, and I like it very much. At the moment Im very much into Paul Franklin, especially the stuff from The Common Linnets album (that to my knowledge is Paul Franklin).

As I said, I like the Stage One very much, with a very warm and full tone, but I would like some more sustain, and maybe a more open sound overall. As far as i know, the Stage One is a wood neck push-pull, with a single coil pick-up. Im not looking to sell it, but to find another one with a different character. I like the sound of Paul Franklin, but also Jonathan Gregg's sound on the howcast video's is interesting, and quite different from what i have now.

Being in Denmark, it's hard for me to try a lot of different guitars, due to limited availability. I guess im asking for some stuff to look for in a new one, so I can just order one from the US, and hope for the best. Push/pull vs. all-pull, wood vs. alu neck, single coil vs. humbucker? Brands? etc. I've had a look at Doug's Stage One Encore, that might have what im looking for, and only 6 months delivery. I play over a Fender Vibroverb RI with a bit of reverb (and UTAH speakers).

Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks,

/SÃ¸ren

Edward Rhea · Post by **Edward Rhea** » 28 May 2014 4:49 pm

Soren, Doug builds some really great guitars...as do a lot of psg builders. I wonder though, why not consider a European built steel? I'd love to get my on a WBS guitar! Made in Germany by Wolfgang Bednarz. His site is great, and from photos I've seen...breathtaking craftsmanship! Just a thought?.....

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 29 May 2014 9:35 am

Hi SÃ¸ren,

Welcome to the Forum!

I started out on a Stage One and it was the ideal place to start IMHO and I'm very sure that the Encore is an incredible guitar too.

What Edward says makes a lot of sense though, as the cost of shipping, customs and VAT (MOMS in Danish) makes a non-European guitar very expensive upon arrival.

I have met Wolfgang Bednarz several times and I have played several of his his guitars and I can assure you, that if I had the funds available for a brand new steel, it would be a WBS - they are just incredibly well built and they have the exact sound you describe in your post!

Again: This is just MY opinion and certainly not something I say to knock any US products, but economy being like it is (for me anyway) that would be my preference and it probably would anyway. The only guitar I would rather have than the WBS would be a brand new ZumSteel and that is just WAY out of my league money-wise.

Ole

admin · Post by **b0b** » 29 May 2014 11:09 am

There's only one push-pull maker in the world today: Promat. Their web site shows an "Economy Model", but I haven't seen any of them yet. They are in Europe (not sure exactly where).

All other intermediate steel guitars use an all-pull changer. All-pull guitars are easy to maintain and change copedents. They are the industry standard.

For fast delivery and an intermediate price, consider the Mullen Discovery. I think that Mullen is probably producing more pedal steels today than any other builder. Most of the other builders are one or two-person custom shops. Fred Justice is building a Pro Lite model in the same price range. There may be others I'm not aware of.

As for pickups, don't worry about it. It's not hard to change the pickup if you don't like it.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 29 May 2014 11:27 am

Promat has an economy model guitar, pure push pull, but minus all the fancy, expensive stuff, I think you have a choice between wooden or aluminum neck, and regular or "Promat" improved changer, I believe there is no extra charge for any of this options...

you can get an idea what this guitar sounds like here

http://youtu.be/mYuTeJz17-o

Db

Søren Stevnsgaard · Post by **Søren Stevnsgaard** » 29 May 2014 11:54 am

Hi all. Thanks for your reply's, and I'll check them all put. As for the WBS, they look very cool. The price starts at 1.500 USD for a S-10 3+4, then again 3.000 for an all-pull 3+4, and ending at 6.000 for a 3+5.

The 1.500 is the same as the Encore, and 3.000 is close to the same as a ZumSteel (3.200). (Danish taxes will come on top of that though), What the best option is, I don't know. Ole, what types of the WBS have you played? Anywhere I can try it? It would be nice to see how the smallest one compares to my own StageOne.

Also, what type of changer is on my StageOne? I thought it was push-pull

/SÃ¸ren

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 29 May 2014 11:55 am

the very first Promat guitar was delivered to US by me, and the very first person that actually played the guitar was Nick Reed..Bobbe was a big fan of Promat guitars, and it was in close touch with the company, when asked, Bobbe said, the Promat has more push/pullish tone than Emmons push pull itself, and to Bobbe playing a new Promat, felt just like playing a brand new Emmons push pull... with Bobbes passing, Promat lost a big friend and promotor..now days you can find a used Promat, pretty much only here on this forum, or you can order a new one from the company...

Nick Reed, the first US steel player who had a chance to try the New Promat, after playing for a while his first question was "had Bobbe seen this?"

he did,very next day

Nick has owned many push pull guitars, and as a good friend of mine, I asked him to bring some of his guitars, so we can compare it to the "Promat" ... Nick had '66 bolt on, and '78 cut tail push pull Emmons guitars, we played them all, neck to neck with a Promat...I don't want to brag here too much, but if you'd like to know the result of this unique experiment, you can contact Nick himself ...

Im sure you know this fella, having fun on "Promat"

Db

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 29 May 2014 12:35 pm

SÃ¸ren,

I believe the ones I've tried have all been from his "Ultimate" series. I played the one in the clip below the day it was delivered to Mark Horn (German steel ace) at the Irish Steel Guitar Festival and it is truly the best steel I have sat down behind yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQi9X_VjE4k

Regarding your question about the changer type on the Stage One, it is known as a pull/release type - essentially a simpler form of push/pull.

Ole

Jim Means · Post by **Jim Means** » 29 May 2014 1:44 pm

WOW!

Very pretty song, extremely well played on a beautiful sounding guitar.

Well Done!

Jim in Missouri

Tony Tipton · Post by **Tony Tipton** » 29 May 2014 3:56 pm

Beautiful guitar and tone . Don't mean to hijack the thread, but does anyone know the name of the tune ? Thanks . Tony

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 29 May 2014 4:20 pm

Yes it's a song that Mark has written for his daughter. It's called "Song for Josephine".

Ole

Tony Tipton · Post by **Tony Tipton** » 29 May 2014 7:00 pm

Thanks Ole. Tony

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 30 May 2014 3:53 am

To me, it seems like your concerns about "more sustain, and maybe a more open sound overall" would be better addressed by getting another amp. Sustain comes from having the amp turned up a reasonable amount while using your volume pedal to sustain the sound. And a good volume pedal will help too, I recommend using a Hilton pedal. Your Stage One would probably sound fine through a steel guitar amp, a Nashville 400 or 112 or a GK MB 200. If I were you, I would try this before I looked for another guitar.

Zoran Kosir · Post by **Zoran Kosir** » 30 May 2014 4:05 am

Hi,

as many players before I suggest PROMAT SE - economy model. I'm very satisfied, nice tone, big sustain and what is the most important is MADE in EUROPE. Option transport from Slovenia-EU.

Søren Stevnsgaard · Post by **Søren Stevnsgaard** » 30 May 2014 11:38 pm

Thanks again, seems like I need to check out the Promat's.

Bill, I had thoughts about the amp as well, but I've also tried others, though not a 'reel' transistor steel amp. I've seen several players using tube amps (Paul Franklin being one), and I like the vintage sound of them. My own has a very nice creamy midrange that I really like. Only problem with it, is a bit heavy buttom. And I can use it with my Tele as well

Cheers,

/SÃ¸ren

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 May 2014 5:28 pm

There's no reason your Stage One shouldn't sound killer through that amp.
What are your amp settings?
Have you put an ohmmeter across the pickup?
I really suspect the problem lies in the hands or knobs.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 1 Jun 2014 2:16 am

Ha! a Promat commercial ! No doubt, they are great Steels, worth every penny.

Regarding the question at the top, when moving up from the Stage One, also a very fine little Steel, moving to pretty much any other PRO brand will give you an immediate heavier guitar and I don't mean heavy to carry, heavy meaning it sits more stable and doesn't move when playing. I loved my Stage One, it was a fine axe but I found it moved too much for me when playing. Maybe it's me...

Where you live it may be difficult to acquire used Steels so I can't speak to what would be best. If you like the S10, pretty much any of the current manufactured brands will give you an S10 or an SD10 with an ALL PULL changer that you will be pleased with. All it takes is money !

best to you

t

Søren Stevnsgaard · Post by **Søren Stevnsgaard** » 1 Jun 2014 4:25 am

Thanks for your inputs.

Lane, my Stage One does sound killer, and Im not unhappy with the sound. I bought it as a beginner steel, and to get close to the Ben Keith/Neil young sound that I love, and the reason why I started. But with a delivery time of 12-18 months on some new steels, I feel like i wanna explore what a second steel can give me of different sounds in the years to come.

Tony, that's what im thinking too, and that's both good and bad. I don't wanna have a 30 kg steel to carry around, but something around 15-20 would be fine. Easy transportation is important, so for now I wanna settle with a single and learn that good. From what I can read, a new all-pull like Encore, Zum or WBS is gonna give me a more modern sound. I feel like the Promat is gonna give me more like a vintage sound, like Ben Keith, and maybe like what I already have, but the Promat obviously a better quality. Correct me if im wrong.

Anybody knows the prices of Promat S-10/SE-10?

Cheers,

/SÃ¸ren

admin · Post by **b0b** » 1 Jun 2014 8:07 am

Ben Keith of course played an Emmons push-pull, and the Promat is modeled after that guitar. It will have the sound you're looking for.

By the way, I never think of the Emmons sound as "vintage". When I think vintage, I think more of Bigsby and Fender, which were brighter and had less sustain. Emmons pretty much invented the "modern" pedal steel sound, to my way of thinking, and set the standard that everyone tries to match.