An Arithmetical Demonstration of Inadequacy of Fixed Frets

[Alan Brookes]

Again, we're drifting off-topic. This discussion refers to why it's impossible to build an instrument with fixed frets that plays in tune. A steel guitar has no frets. We're not talking about how to tune a steel guitar.
It must be remembered that, in mediaeval times, when gut strings were used, frets were tied and movable, and you could change their position when you changed key. A steel guitarist can make this adjustment by a simple move of the tone bar position. What he cannot do so easily, is change the tuning of the open strings ....unless, of course, he uses a pedal or a knee lever, which fretted instruments don't have.

[Barry Blackwood]

A steel guitar has no frets.

I would venture to say, in today's jargon a steel guitar has virtual frets..

[b0b]

I am talking about an instrument with fixed frets, Alan. For example, here's a JI guitar:



My question is whether a similar fretboard could be designed using a meantone scale, which would sound in tune in multiple keys.

[Alan Brookes]

I don't care how complex a fingerboard is made, the mere fact that, for instance, the note F in the key of C is a different note than the note F in the key of G means that the fixed placement of a fret to give the note of F has to be wrong in every key but two; one major and its associated minor key; and that goes for every single one of the eleven notes, and the notes in-between.

[Charlie McDonald]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temp ... ly_history

'Twelve tone equal temperament took hold for a variety of reasons. It conveniently fit the existing keyboard design, and permitted total harmonic freedom at the expense of just a little impurity in every interval.'

This would seem to have little to do with anything but piano, which was developed as a really big fretted instrument, except to affirm the inadequacy of fixed frets.

I have yet to find one tuning that applies to steel better than meantone, similar to a syntonic comma tuning, with regular fudge factors built in.

BUT ON A MUCH MORE SERIOUS NOTE:

And I am proud that none of you have mentioned that dreaded A=440 is the work of the devil, and we should all go back to A=432 so that all music will become in harmony with the universe due to the fact that notes will no longer be trailing around large numbers of significant figures after the point, and thus there will be more space around the music.

Actually, A=440 Hz is the key to world peace. Half of the world uses AC electricity at 50 Hz, while the other half (including US) uses 60 Hz. This creates a standing electromagnetic wave of 10 Hz encompassing the globe*.

A=440 Hz divides down in octaves to A=220 Hz, A=110 Hz, and lastly to the bass note A=55 Hz. This compromise mediates the two conflicting systems, dispersing the tension and bringing harmony to the entire planet.

Oh no! The insanity! It's here!
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*That would be the center of the Alpha band. We would all be caught in lockstep with the present! Please reconsider before it's too late!
Time is running short! Bring A up to 442 now! We must keep up!

[b0b]

I have yet to find one tuning that applies to steel better than meantone, similar to a syntonic comma tuning, with regular fudge factors built in.

I agree. Meantone is what I use on my 8-string D6/G, with a little "fudge" on the A & B pedals to sweeten them for that traditional country sound.

[Earnest Bovine]

I have yet to find one tuning that applies to steel better than meantone, similar to a syntonic comma tuning, with regular fudge factors built in.

I agree. Meantone is what I use

Yes, there is no other good way if you use more the bare minimum of 3 or 4 chords at each fret. OTOH on very simple music it can be nice to tune those 3 or 4 chords a little sweeter, and not play anything else.

[Alan Brookes]

But then the steel guitar is not a fixed-fretted instrument, so it's not relevant to the discussion as to why fixed frets can never be in tune.

[Charlie McDonald]

The plural of piano is still pianos.

[Dennis Detweiler]

Just pick!

[Alan Brookes]

The plural of piano is still pianos.

That all depends if "piano" has reached the stage where it's no longer an abbreviation. "piano" is short for "pianoforte" so it should be written "piano'" or "piano." The same goes for "cello", which is an abbreviation of "violoncello", so it should be written "'cello" or "cello.". In the same way, "'phone" is an abbreviation for "telephone" and "'bus" for "omnibus."

So, there you are. The language is constantly changing, and English is full of words which used to be abbreviations, so, at the moment, it's a matter of personal preference whether you spell pianofortes as piano's or pianos. Of course, the problem is that a lot of people erroneously use an apostraphe to denote plurals. For instance, the plural of apple is apples, but some people write apple's, which is completely wrong unless you're writing, "the apple's skin", for instance, so, if you write piano's as a plural people could think that you don't know the difference between the plural and the genitive.

By the way, are you aware that there didn't used to be a word "cherry"? The fruit was a cherice, but people started thinking that that was plural, so they started spelling it cherries and then formed the word cherry as a back-formation from a plural which didn't exist.