UPS disaster- Carter steel severely damaged - help

John Brabant · Post by **John Brabant** » 20 May 2014 2:06 am

Hi Everyone:

I am looking for advice from any and all who have had the unfortunate experience of shipping a steel via UPS to a fellow forumite only to learn that when the steel was received, it was found to be severely damaged. I just learned by email that a mint Carter D-10 I shipped to Jack Goodson was damaged in transit. Jack emailed to me that the body was cracked and damaged on the front apron and damaged to the point where the crossrods are now falling out of their holes. I recall reading here and elsewhere that some others have had similar experiences with UPS shipments.

Please advise. I insured it for $2500, but recall that some have said that they ended up in a protracted battle with UPS to get payment out of them for damaged equipment. If there are best ways to deal with this in your experience, please advise. I feel horrible about this. If UPS screws me on this, I want to make it right for Jack, so if anyone has any advice in lieu of UPS coming thru such as where I can buy another Carter D-10 body to replace the one Jack just got handed, I would also appreciate that.

I haven't yet spoken first hand with Jack, but will this morning. Thank you all in advance for any assistance you can provide. - John

John Brabant · Post by **John Brabant** » 20 May 2014 2:21 am

A thought. Would Al Brisco have any Carter D-10 bodies in his parts inventory?

thanks again.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 20 May 2014 2:58 am

One of the most important steps is to be certain to save all packing materials. Normally UPS will claim that the item was improperly packed thus resulting in the damage and may deny your claim if you cannot produce said materials..You might try contacting another steel guitar builder to repair or replace the damaged areas (if the guitar is ultimately returned to you, Jerry Fessenden is fairly close).

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 May 2014 3:31 am

In a case of locking the barn door after the horse has bolted, I want to point out that Greg Cutshaw has a VERY robust packing method on his site.
Either pack to his standard, ensuring the lowest possible likelihood of damage, or take the guitar to ups or FedEx for them to pack. I have ZERO confidence in their packing, but if the carrier's agent packs it, they cannot say it was inadequately packed.

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 20 May 2014 3:48 am

Having gone thought this, do 2 things...
1. Pay UPS to pack it..
2. Insure it..

If it's the best & easiest way to get you money out of the guitar...

John Brabant · Post by **John Brabant** » 20 May 2014 5:17 am

I will give Jerry a call and see what advice he can provide. Jerry is close to me, but the guitar is now in Alabama so s builder or rebuilder down there would probably e better to go to for a repair. I do not want to ship this again by UPS. I paid them $100 to ruin a beautiful instrument.

Anyone that I could contact near New Brockton, Alabama that I can contact that can fix this guitar?

Joe Naylor · Post by **Joe Naylor** » 20 May 2014 5:26 am

I DO NOT USE UPS AT ALL - I know several of the steel guitar builder do not use it either.

I have used FedEx for 7 years and had one claim and not sure that was not a customer problem. However FedEx paid me in 11 days and was more than I have discussed.

The last time I used UPS was to a guy that worked for them in the Chicago area. They lost it - about a year later they found it in St. Louis ---- by that time he had been setting on the second seat I built him for several months. He even had me send the second one FedEx.

David may be right but I do not want to pay for them to pack seats every time - I shipped 12 yesterday and have no idea how long or how much on that deal.

The US Post Office is the best option for international by the way. I just shipped a seat to the UK a couple weeks ago and it arrived before the one I shipped the same day to Maine.

Good Luck with getting a settlement from UPS.

Steel Guitar of Canada does have Carter parts.

Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 May 2014 6:23 am

I've seen problems posted of both the major shipping companies. One will swear by one company and someone else the other company.

When I got my Franklin it was shipped by Greyhound Bus. Mr Franklin said they found that the "safest" way when he worked at Sho-Bud. Both FedEx and UPS were around back then, although FedEx was air only.

My shop (where I worked until retirement) shipped a lot of computer equipment and parts. We always "overpacked" and never had a problem. Most of it was shipped FedEx as the Federal Government Agency I worked for had a contract. I've sold a lot of items on the forum and on e-bay and have adhered to the "overpacking" and have never had a problem.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2014 6:41 am

I had a problem with FedEx a while back. They damaged a pristine Emmons p/p in shipment.
I had it insured for $4,000 and they wouldn't do anything about it. I took them to conciliation (small claims) court and collected all I had coming including shipping expenses and court costs. The judge was very sympathetic.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 20 May 2014 8:09 am

They are most sure to start out as a 'Hard case', i'm sure they are self insured etc, and they are probably only going to pay on people like Erv who really fought the case. It shouldn't be that way, you pay 'Insurance' and they broke it...They diden't have any problem with the way it was wrapped when they took your insurance money did they??? it's 'their' problem!!

John Brabant · Post by **John Brabant** » 20 May 2014 9:04 am

Hi Erv:

Good advice. So the court that would have jurisdiction I would think would be the court from the state where the transaction occurred between UPS and the shipper (me, that being Vermont. I will give them a chance to do the right thing, but will take them to small claims court immediately if they don't. I will also be calling the Consumer Protection Division of the Vermont Attorney General's office at the same time. Imagine if UPS advertised, "Ship with us, but there is a decent chance that we will severely damage or destroy the item you have us ship for you and we will accept no responsibility for our actions. That will be $100.00 please." I would expect that they would go out of business. We will see.

In the meantime, I am looking for a replacement Carter D-10 body if anyone knows where I can find one or have one made.

Thank you everyone for your help on this.

Mike Mantey · Post by **Mike Mantey** » 20 May 2014 9:06 am

Luck of the draw. I ship at least 2 steels a week UPS and have never had severe damage. However the damage I did have last happen to be on a carter guitar. The back rail is held on by some screws, but the rail has a slot, wish I had pics. But if it is dropped at all the back apron can slide out and therefore cross rods fall out.

My suggestion to Carter owner's (and not even sure if this is how all of them are), but drill you a hole or two in the back apron where it mounts to the c6th neck and put in a simple 1/2" screw, that way it can't slide out and drop cross rods.

If someone could snap a picture it would be worth a thousand words.

Back to the claim, we repaired the guitar and UPS paid the bill no problem.

John Brabant · Post by **John Brabant** » 20 May 2014 9:14 am

Hi Mike:

I will let Jack Goodson know. From the single pic that Jack emailed to me, the aluminum back apron appears to be in place and to not have slid off from the mounting screws. Jack said that the wood body is cracked on the front apron under the formica and also on the keyhead end, where it was dropped.

If the guitar were to be re-glued, will it hold up?

John Brabant · Post by **John Brabant** » 20 May 2014 9:17 am

By the way, the Sho Bud I took in trade for the Carter was delivered today. While the steel was fine, UPS did drop this one too, breaking one of the case corner joints. I made the UPS driver wait until I finished the inspection. I will deal with gluing the case, what looks to be an easy repair.

I am not impressed with UPS, they are 0-2.

Mike Mantey · Post by **Mike Mantey** » 20 May 2014 9:27 am

Yes, a cracked body can be glued to be just fine if done properly.

Yes the Carter I had damaged the case just kind of blew up, partition out quite the mess. I do believe the case has a lot to do with it.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2014 9:38 am

My guitar was handled SO roughly that the blocks that held the guitar in place were broken loose from the case.
With FedEx, they said that I didn't buy insurance, it was declared value. That makes no sense at all as I paid extra for the insurance. When they made that statement in court, the judge said: "I'll determine that." Don't be in a hurry to find another body for the guitar, FedEx wound up with my guitar after paying me.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 20 May 2014 11:33 am

UPS should start a used parts company to go alongside their main business...

Dave O'Brien · Post by **Dave O'Brien** » 20 May 2014 12:54 pm

UPS is a disaster. I bought a Fender Twin - they did their best to destroy it. 4 tubes missing except for some glass shards - looked like they had rolled it 1000 miles or towed it with a rope - the 100 lb delivery gal dumped it upside down in my driveway and left without the required signature! Never again! always ask your shipper to use fed Ex.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 20 May 2014 1:39 pm

i had a carter with a crack in it. john fabian offered me a replacement body...as long as it was in white! lol al might have some of those bodies in the parts stash from carter.

there used to be a place here in the atlanta area called peachtree salvage. all they sold was UPS damaged stuff. bought it from UPS by the pound in semi trucks out of some UPS place in arkansas i think. i bought some spectacular guitars from that place. all very repairable.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 20 May 2014 2:14 pm

A long time ago, I worked for a company where I had to deal with delivery company reps. We had a damaged box from UPS. I called the rep and he came out to see the damage. I was told it wasn't packaged correctly and proceeded to tell me that a package needs to able to survive a drop from the back of a semi to be considered being packed correctly. What a chicken S**T explanation.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 20 May 2014 5:18 pm

John,,IF,,,you win a damage case,,,,then UPS would take possession of the guitar,,,if they pay for it, it's theirs,, (as in Erv's case above). If the guitar is repaired,,,and a claim is made for the cost of repair, that complicates the issue,,,,all kinds of arguments could arise out of that,,,"we could have got it done cheaper",,,,"did it really need that much repair",,,,etc,,,,. Hope you had pics of the guitar stabilized securely in the case (loose items act as a "hammer" when impacted). Their "fine print" states items must be packed to with stand a 6' (?) drop,,,as does fedex.

Ed Heins · Post by **Ed Heins** » 20 May 2014 6:01 pm

I ship and receive UPS often for work, and have found they can really destroy a package. If I have to ship anything sensitive, I try to put enough packing around it and secure enough to withstand a 5 ft or so direct drop on a corner. I've never seen them toss something in that manner, but I have certainly seen the results that indicate such. Man sorry to hear about the steel. That's a huge loss it seems.

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 20 May 2014 9:50 pm

UPS never call in advance to check if someone's at home, because they do not have cell phones (!). When they deliver imported goods, they demand cash payment for import duties. Credit cards? Never heard of them... And when they take the cash, they will not give any change back. True professionals, NOT!

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 20 May 2014 10:11 pm

I'd ask them to round down to my nearest bill...sounds like a bit of 'gratuity is included' going on with the no change thing.

Will Cowell · Post by **Will Cowell** » 21 May 2014 2:39 am

I sympathise with Dave O'Brien, but I will always take out all vacuum tubes if shipping an amp, and pack them independently within the enclosure. They are just too vulnerable to shocks and stresses of shipment in their sockets.

Long experience with old ham radio equipment!

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UPS disaster- Carter steel severely damaged - help

UPS disaster- Carter steel severely damaged - help

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