Chord Wars Fun

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 May 2014 9:22 am

why do you still want to hold on to this notion of its not about being able to play the full chord

Full chords on steel guitar in a band situation usually sounds cluttered, muddy, and unnecessary. Steel guitar stands out best when it's voicing two note harmonies that compliment the music, 3rds, 6ths, and occasional chords. The way we play or at home "alone" or "in theory" is one thing. The way we play in a band an another thing.

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 16 May 2014 9:38 am

Full chords on steel guitar in a band situation usually sounds cluttered, muddy, and unnecessary. Steel guitar stands out best when it's voicing two note harmonies that compliment the music, 3rds, 6ths, and occasional chords. The way we play or at home "alone" or "in theory" is one thing. The way we play in a band an another thing.

Doug;
Your comment is so true! And not only for steel guitar, but most other instruments.

I have worked with guitarists and piano players that are used to playing solo, and when playing in a band situation they want to play the same way! Too many notes... The piano left hand clashes with the bass, and the guitar strums constantly leaving no open space in the arrangement...

It is so important to listen to what others in the band are playing, and add only what is needed.

Dom

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 16 May 2014 9:43 am

All depends on the player.

I've heard Trios that sound amazing and the guitar player i.e. John Mayer, Hendrix sounds lush and full.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 May 2014 10:16 am

It is so important to listen to what others in the band are playing, and add only what is needed.

I agree. Big full chords will be lost, will just be clutter, in a band with 5 or 6 pieces. In Trios.... yes, obviously there is plenty of space for big lush chords and they work well there. Examples: The Police, Junior Brown, Jimi Hendrix, The Who (original band), Cream, etc.
Some of the prettiest steel parts I've ever heard are just two-note harmonies, and occasionally three notes together. Chord fragments that stand out more clearly than a full chord would.

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 16 May 2014 10:17 am

Dom Franco wrote:
I have worked with guitarists and piano players that are used to playing solo, and when playing in a band situation they want to play the same way! Too many notes...

Stefan, this condition could use your passion!

Dom I agree.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 16 May 2014 11:40 am

I have nothing against innovation and pushing through narrow minded traditional boundaries. However, in this case, if I wanted to play full chords with extensions I'd probably pick up my Tele - or better, find a piano.

Extended harmony can work fine in a solo situations (though I find distilled harmony much more powerful and uncluttered) but in a band situation "less is more." I interviewed Cindy Cashdollar yesterday for The Fretboard Journal and she related that "Less is More" is the key lesson taught her by Levon Helms and Paul Butterfield when she was starting out.

The hunt for playing any possible genre of music on one neck goes back a long time .... to Eddie Alkire, to the Harlan Multichord, to the invention of the pedal steel and it's 12-string Universal variants. Yet those innovations never caught on with players.

The musicians I admire most on any instrument understand have taught me that you don't need every note all the time. On a lap steel, not being able to grab every note can lead to brilliant playing. Bob Dunn played rings around many players in an A major tuning. The great Jim Hall would often comp using only the 3rd & 7th. I've been taking lessons on jazz guitarist Martin Taylor's site and Martin's brilliant, innovative style is based on the interval of a 10th filled in with moving 3rds and 7ths. In other words, minimal harmony with multiple moving lines. George Van Epps was a proponent of this pianist approach too as was Lenny Breau.

To me, the charm of our instrument, whether acoustic or electric steel, is in it's limitations and in the creativity to be found therein. I believe a lot of people would agree.

Stefan, it's obvious you have a lot of passion, excitement and zeal to break new ground and to educate the community about your discoveries. That's fine and I applaud you for it but please be respectful of the fact that others may disagree with your basic premise and that doesn't make them wrong or unenlightened. When it comes to art, or internet bulletin board posting, sometimes less is more.

Lee Cecil · Post by **Lee Cecil** » 16 May 2014 11:55 am

Doug and Andy, thank you for saying what I was trying to say much better than I did.

Lee

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 16 May 2014 12:09 pm

I am a simple man, but I have a pretty good understanding of harmony and chords. For me, anything that gets in the way of me making music (thinking too much) is something I avoid. I have tried to get harmonically sophisticated on the instrument by reduction. I find that I do like to play solo and get some of the bigger chords (coverage in the bass and in the treble range), but I don't want to be fancy--I just want to be direct. If there is a tonal or atonal sound that I am after, I want to get right to it.

Triads in all inversions is where it's at for me.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 16 May 2014 12:58 pm

back when i was a teenager, way before the days before youtube - i use to wonder how guys like Joe Pass / Martin Taylor, etc did all that crazy bass line comping and it sounded so BIG - i assumed some huge technical mastery of all the chords that i would see in my Mel Bay's 1001 guitar chords book- you know, the ones...
anyway, when i did finally get to study them and esp see them on youtube, i was amazed how "simply" they approached it - just 2-3 chord tones (guide tones) with a moving bass line - the bass line really being the main theme. and good voice leading of course.
if you can somehow get your voice leading polished, which is admittedly hard to do on straight steel, the harmonic progression is pretty clearly defined to the ear.

which brings me to my final thought on why i dont worry about being able to get fully voiced chords on the steel...
if you cant do it consistently with the proper melody then the tune/arrangement doesnt sound right - ie, if i am using 4 note voices and i have to jump around the neck to get the next one, my voice leading is all over the place and it sounds hokey.
2 notes properly voice lead beats 4 fully voiced randomly stacked any day.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 16 May 2014 1:07 pm

2 notes properly voice lead beats 4 fully voiced randomly stacked any day.

Truer words were seldom spoken - I mean typed.

George Piburn · Post by **George Piburn** » 16 May 2014 2:11 pm

I think that Maurice Anderson's 12 string advanced tuning is the best direction to get what Stephan is going for.

It takes advanced hand grip and bar control to be able to handle the string skipping required to do so many Straight Across Bar Chords with advanced theory tone lay outs. As Well three finger picks with the thumb pick.

James Trout · Post by **James Trout** » 16 May 2014 8:57 pm

Just my two cents: I am fascinated by this idea that we need to push the boundaries of an instrument. If you look at true innovation with regards to music you see it through the players not the instruction booklet. Let me also say that I draw a distinction between true innovation and players who build on the innovators. Chet Atkins for all his awesomeness that he brought to the guitar "built" on techniques already incorporated by Merle Travis who built on techniques from someone else. Jerry Reed on the other hand brought a style of playing that was so new and different that others (including) Chet started to learn his techniques and thought processes to incorporate them into their playing. My ignorance of the history of the lap steel does not give me good historical references but hopefully I've made my point. Bottom line is there will be more players that come along and will push the lap steel in directions that will leave us in awe and the desire to learn these new ideas. More exposure of the instrument is a good thing, more teaching is a good thing, even discussions like this = good stuff. But it is only good if the next great innovator decides the lap steel is their instrument and decides to take it to the next level - until then keep exposure to the max and never miss an opportunity to be an ambassador of the instrument we all love - who knows, you might be the one to show the basics to the next lap steel Mozart!!!

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 4 May 2015 8:13 am

James Trout wrote:Just my two cents: I am fascinated by this idea that we need to push the boundaries of an instrument. If you look at true innovation with regards to music you see it through the players not the instruction booklet. Let me also say that I draw a distinction between true innovation and players who build on the innovators. Chet Atkins for all his awesomeness that he brought to the guitar "built" on techniques already incorporated by Merle Travis who built on techniques from someone else. Jerry Reed on the other hand brought a style of playing that was so new and different that others (including) Chet started to learn his techniques and thought processes to incorporate them into their playing. My ignorance of the history of the lap steel does not give me good historical references but hopefully I've made my point. Bottom line is there will be more players that come along and will push the lap steel in directions that will leave us in awe and the desire to learn these new ideas. More exposure of the instrument is a good thing, more teaching is a good thing, even discussions like this = good stuff. But it is only good if the next great innovator decides the lap steel is their instrument and decides to take it to the next level - until then keep exposure to the max and never miss an opportunity to be an ambassador of the instrument we all love - who knows, you might be the one to show the basics to the next lap steel Mozart!!!

I just decided to look through this old post. +1 to what you said. I'm going to keep at my Universal application and tuning and hopefully the fruits of my labour, struggles will be understood. Or reach an audience that appreciate it.

FYI if all we ever do is copy those that have gone before we will be nothing more than a Nth generation copy and who wants to listen to the nth copy when people can hear the original.

If I mention Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Chet Atkins, Miles Davis, Joe Pass etc... these guys offered a new perspective. That was genius. It was their musical voice and sound that made them unique no matter who they were playing with.

Learning the tradition is also great and has many rewards but it isn't the only perspective and maybe that is what's been missing and the reason behind the near death of this instrument. Had it not been for artist, whether technically proficient or not, playing music with a different perspective, like David Lindley, Ben Harper etc. Theses instruments would remain a thing of the past and maybe be in a catalogue only.

So with that being said duplication teaches education but not innovation.

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