Lack of love for new steel amplifers

Gordon Hartin · Post by **Gordon Hartin** » 12 May 2014 9:42 am

I like the new tube amps!

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 12 May 2014 9:44 am

Last I checked, nobody was forcing anyone to buy an expensive amp. I may get one, I'd love to have one . Will I ? Who knows ?

I know this much-I sure do like the idea of having the option. As far as nobody in the audience noticing, that may be correct , but at least one person on the bandstand may notice.

I can't understand why the negativity. If you don't want one, for whatever reason, don't buy one. The car comparison is valid. If it was my priority, I suppose I could lease a Porsche. It's not my passion, but I don't knock the person who chooses to do so.

Live and let live, and be thankful for the many options.[/img]

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 May 2014 9:52 am

Overpriced? Naah. Anyone could, if they wanted, check the prices on the components, and at a handful of units a year, I doubt that Mercury Magnetics (or whoever) gives Tim a volume discount.
And I'm not gonna deny someone sufficient margin to make a living.
Tim, you charge what you think is fair, and let people figure out if they want one.
Quite frankly, I think they're worth it. The advance in tone of a Milkman over the Twin that inspired it is simultaneously subtle, obvious and valuable.
If others want to shop left to right, let them.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 12 May 2014 10:13 am

Bottom line: Would I rather sound like Paul Sutherland playing through a Peavey, than like me playing through a Milkman? Duh! Of course!

But I can only play like me, and I still say that a great amp makes nearly any player sound better than they would otherwise. And Greg Leisz, Franklin, etc. have switched to this kind of amp - and I'd bet they wouldn't do it if they didn't believe it made a difference..

The FEEL of the amp is as important as the sound - maybe even more so for a barely average player like myself...the responsiveness and connection between fingers and sound somehow seems physical....Sutherland doesn't need this sort of feedback to sound amazing...but I believe that it sure helps me...

No, it isn't something totally magical, it is still "just" an amp - but it is an important link in the sonic chain, and I'm really happy to have it be as strong as Tim made it for me...

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 12 May 2014 10:23 am

Steve Lipsey wrote:And Greg Leisz

who - this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk4mtNFJL50

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 12 May 2014 10:31 am

Bob Carlucci wrote:
Look, the greatest steel players that ever lived , that played the most well known parts on the biggest hits of all time, used plain old guitar amps, or regular production steel amps of the day... Its a fact, and all that regular production stuff stills sounds every bit as good..... bob

Older amplifiers were built better.
They weren't built like the mass produced stuff that we have today.

All this talk about tone and it seems nobody has mentioned reliability.
If I were a pro, playing night after night for a living, I would buy a boutique amp.

Also, it might be true that the average listener isn't going to notice the difference between someone playing through a Peavey, Fender or a boutique amp.
They sure will notice when somebody's amp craps out though.

Rick

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 12 May 2014 3:47 pm

While I don't own a high end tube amp, I did bring back the new Telonics TCA500 combo amp from Dallas this year -- for two reasons: A: it's incredibly light weight (I fly a lot) ..and B: the 500W power.

I have just returned from a Country Music festival in our far north, so naturally I had to fly there and the amp all up weighs about 16.5 Kgs/30lb ish ! perfect, it is also an outstanding amp and has a lot of features other amps don't. For me the extra cost was well worth it for the versatility and usefullness for MY needs. I got a hell of a lot of compliments from both my fellow musicians and also the listeners on how good my Zum sounded :-}

I am also taking it to the week long Norfolk Island festival next week -- once again a flying gig.

This is my Porsche :-} !

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 May 2014 9:43 pm

Steve Lipsey wrote:
....Franklin, .... switched to this kind of amp
..

Doesn't Paul use a Little Walter?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 May 2014 9:47 pm

I am in the process of having my 1976 Music Man HD 212 rebuilt. new tubes, new caps, and new Telonics speakers.

I hope it will be worth it.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 May 2014 11:11 pm

Tony Glassman wrote:With so many new lightweight amps on the market, i notice little discussion or reviews re:

- Quilter Steelaire
- Telonics combo
- Milkman steel amps

It seems the, that when the Sarno Revelation, Teloonics rack amp/preeamp etc, were newly introduced, folks were buying 'em like hotcakes and extoling their virtues. What gives with the lack of gab or interest with the new amps?

More new amps produced means less attention for them all. Couple that with the high prices (compared with the Peavey/Fender/Roland stuff) and it's easy to understand the lack of enthusiasm. I think steel players are getting more and more savvy, and that most of them realize that picking an amp is more personal preference than it is a panacea for all their sound problems.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 13 May 2014 12:02 am

Paddy Long wrote:While I don't own a high end tube amp, I did bring back the new Telonics TCA500 combo amp from Dallas this year -- for two reasons: A: it's incredibly light weight (I fly a lot) ..and B: the 500W power.

I have just returned from a Country Music festival in our far north, so naturally I had to fly there and the amp all up weighs about 16.5 Kgs/30lb ish ! perfect, it is also an outstanding amp and has a lot of features other amps don't. For me the extra cost was well worth it for the versatility and usefullness for MY needs. I got a hell of a lot of compliments from both my fellow musicians and also the listeners on how good my Zum sounded :-}

I am also taking it to the week long Norfolk Island festival next week -- once again a flying gig.

This is my Porsche :-} !

When you are the wealthiest man in New Zealand like Paddy, a Telonics TCA-500 is a mere drop in the ocean financially!!

You are lucky Paddy - I am still waiting for a consignment of TCA-500's to reach the UK. Glad you are pleased with yours and that it has lived up to expectations.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 May 2014 1:59 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:
Steve Lipsey wrote:
....Franklin, .... switched to this kind of amp
..
Doesn't Paul use a Little Walter?

Boutique tube. I'd put the Little Walter in the same kind, even if a different brand.

Cory Dolinsky · Post by **Cory Dolinsky** » 13 May 2014 3:33 am

I love tube amps, there is great joy waiting for the tubes to warm up and flipping the switch. It's great to know that they are built by hand and parts can be serviced without junking the whole thing. I wish more electronics were built by hand in the USA it's sad the throw away society we live in. As long as people want to pay for cheap stuff fender, etc will keeping making them overseas by low skilled, underpaid workers.

I love my revelation, vht power amp, but I m saving up for a milkman.

Steve Schmidt · Post by **Steve Schmidt** » 13 May 2014 4:36 am

I have a 66 super reverb in a small Rick Johnson cabinet with a single 1203 BW and I'm lovin the tone on this thing. I would love one of Tim's Mini amps but can't afford it so this will do for now. I'm very impressed with Tim's stuff. There's a few guys out there making custom stuff. Gwin is another one that looks very nice as well as the Town and Country. I'd like to build one myself but everytime I go and price out transformers and components you soon realize your not in it for the money

Mark Fowler · Post by **Mark Fowler** » 13 May 2014 3:14 pm

Tim,

You and I as well as other amp builders know the high cost and time to build custom tube amps and to pay for all your time and expense a guy needs to charge accordingly.

I used Peavey amps for over 15 years on the road playing rather then my old Fender amps so I'm not against SS amps.

But even Peavey has a custom shop for hand wired tube amps using eyelets or turret boards look at what they charge for those models compared to their SS wave soldered amps.

Mark

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 13 May 2014 3:40 pm

When you are the wealthiest man in New Zealand like Paddy, a Telonics TCA-500 is a mere drop in the ocean financially!!

haha Ken ...2nd wealthiest actually

... I wish.
But because I am a very busy musician the gear soon pays for itself ...and I also have a good accountant - and I sold my NV1000

Dave told me he has a run for the UK almost ready so you will love the amp mate, and so will your back.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 13 May 2014 11:37 pm

Hi Paddy
It's good that others have noticed that you sound good through your new combo. That's what happened this year at the Dallas Show when I played through one.

Also, I just love the output socket on the front to power the Telonics volume pedal. Brilliant idea, and one less wall wart to carry around.

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 14 May 2014 8:21 am

I agree with Bob...........

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 15 May 2014 8:11 am

It has always amazed me how many pedal steel players (lap steelers are often a different breed) obsess over guitars that cost $2-9k and play them through $4-600 solid-state amps, with the mantra "but those amps have the power and clean headroom needed for pedal steel". And for years those players thought it ridiculous what 6-string players paid for quality tube amps.

Then Paul Franklin & a few other pros switch to low powered tube amps for superior tone & people wonder why those simple amps cost thousands of dollars. So they either suffer with the same old type of gear, or claim there's no tonal difference (eye roll), or learn there IS more to good tone than picking technique and go the "new" direction (ancient now by 6-string standards).

There are some great new amps - tube, hybrid & solid state - being produced by "boutique" shops. "Expensive"? It depends on your perspective. "Practical?" For most club gigs and home playing, yes - the days of high-power needs are long gone. Almost every stage is miked and/or has direct-inject capabilities taking signal off a new amp's direct out (post preamp or attenuated/post power amp).

The market and technology have changed. The only reasons to stick with the same old amps are frugality and/or stubbornness/tradition. You can have better tone, but you do need to pay for it. Few good things in this business are truly "free" or "cheap".

Daryl Thisdelle · Post by **Daryl Thisdelle** » 15 May 2014 3:32 pm

I totally agree with Tim....100%.. The problem here is that 90 percent of the people play through grocery getter amplifiers. Ya know the grocery getter car. Now the guy who is playing through the grocery getter amp have him play though a boutique amp set up or a Lambo car. 99.9 percent of the time the Lambo wins out as the car and so does the boutque amp system. Does any one say, mmmmmmm my Ford 4 cylinder will take the Lambo anytime. Ya right, ain't going to happen. The problem is that more guys do not have the chance to play through a boutique amp set up and never get to really hear how good the sound is. I have my very own high end recording studio in my home. I can tell ya there is nothing that can replace a hand made piece of equipment from a guy who knows what he is doing.
Daryl

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 15 May 2014 3:32 pm

I veer slightly tangential, for a moment: Most steel guitarists that I know came at it from the perspective of lead guitarists who wanted something more than we could get out of a six-string, with a slide or not. Among those of us who survive past the... 10-year mark?... (yeah!) there is always a marked change - in our lead guitar playing. Much cleaner, much more attention to nuance, much more in tune, better listeners. But when you look at the direction the vast majority of high-end, custom amps go - the original Boogies, the Soldanos, the Bogner, Diezels etc - all that is aimed at the "screamy" end of the clean-screamy parameter. When people talk about the great "clean" channel of the Dumble amps, that sound - Robben Ford, Larry Carton etc., has way more drive on it than, say, an ordinary Fender Twin at 6 or 7 (I don't think most people really like a Twin at 10!) There are some specialized pre-amp and overdrive pedals that are specifically designed to kick a Fender-type amp up to the "clean" Dumble range.

So not only are steel players in general a much smaller market, the role of "tube amps for steel" is tinier still, unless you really want to plug a D10 into a Bogner. There were a few steelers using Mesa Boogies for steel, excellent ones, Paul Franklin and Dave Easley, (and b0b?) but the "gain" knob surely stayed below noon. For that matter Larry Carlton and others used Boogies a lot, but there isn't a guitar solo on any Steely Dan song by anyone that has less gain cranked than... any current country hit? Should I say "most" current country, because I'm not about to head over and listen.

We're lucky to have anyone at all willing to make a clean 100-watter. Clean clean, not Dumble-clean.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 16 May 2014 12:34 am

Steel player-wise, the biggest tonehound that I have ever met is Mike Johnson. Mike's studio rigs are just incredible high end pre and power amps combined with ultimate spec effects units. Mike loves warm and rich tone, and still uses a pot volume pedal.

For live gigs he uses an old Peavey LTD amp with a lightweight Eminence Neo 15" speaker plus a small rack of effects units. He uses his Franklin stereo pot pedal with a lovely red Emmons push pull guitar. I can tell you that Mike's live tone is just superb and the best I have heard.

Then again, Mike has wonderful hands, and would sound great regardless of what equipment he plays through.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 16 May 2014 1:27 am

To answer the original question, I think quite a few of the high end tube amps are bought by pros who don`t go "all I can say is wow" in public with every piece of professional equipment they buy.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 16 May 2014 1:58 am

Olli Haavisto wrote:To answer the original question, I think quite a few of the high end tube amps are bought by pros who don`t go "all I can say is wow" in public with every piece of professional equipment they buy.

The Telonics amp was listed by the original poster, and it is solid state not tube or valve. Tommy Dodd is a pro steel player who has given the Telonics TCA 500 combo a sparkling testimonial review in the Electronics section of this forum.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=265731

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 16 May 2014 3:13 am

i think the answer to this (question) could be the sad state of live music and the fact a rational musician can't spend $2k+ on an amp to play $75 gigs (when he can get em). in my mind its as simple as that. the "grocery getter" amps will have to do - and thats a good term. i love the warm fuzzies of a great amp as much as the next guy, but i'm just not dragging $6k worth of "tonal bliss" to the local pub or street festival where its ran thru a dance PA, etc. even the good gigs that are listening rooms don't require much more than a Roland cube.

the best live steel sound i believe i've ever heard was a stock Peavey 112 + a damn great player.

i wish the amp builders all the best - i know its tough out there.

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