Pedal Placements on a Keyless U-12

Dean Cavill · Post by **Dean Cavill** » 9 May 2014 4:17 pm

I recently read a comment herein about a Universal player who would not consider a Keyless PSG
because the Pedals were all shifted too far right.
Does he make a good point?

On my current Carter U-12, the leftmost pedal ( 0 Pedal - Franklin ) is a full 5 inches to the left of the nut.
Also noted: The distance between the LKR and RKL is about 9.5 inches.

Every picture I've seen of a GFI or Williams Keyless has the leftmost pedal directly below the nut.

So, all things being equal... if the 8 pedals all need to be shifted, say, 6 inches to the right for a Keyless:
That would leave approximately only 3.5" between the LKR and the RKL.

So, without getting into the general Pros & Cons of Keyless Vs. Standard PSGs, have the Pedal positions relative to the
nut ever been an issue for any of y'all when playing or considering the purchase of a Keyless PSG ?

Many Thanks in advance for your replies.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 9 May 2014 6:35 pm

I'd urge you to take all measurements from the changer. And also remember, if you're thinking of having one made, all placements are subject to custom specs.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 9 May 2014 8:02 pm

I have a keyless BMI U12, P1 is directly below the 1st fret. It didn't take long to get used to, and I prefer this spacing now. My next guitar will definitely be a keyless. I had a '00 Carter U12 a while back, no Franklin pedal. I actually had to shift the pedals right one because the angle was uncomfortable for me after playing the BMI for a while and I would end up on B-C when I wanted A-B. Do you drop your Es w/ LKR? That would end up being quite a reach if you add the Franklin pedal

Like anything, what is most comfortable to you depends on your physiology, and what you've gotten used to. For me it's a more relaxed position. Also FWIW, the knees on the BMI measure 19" from inside of LKL to inside of RKR, a little over 6" between each (including between LKR to RKL). LKL is directly below 2nd fret.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 May 2014 7:57 am

It really depends on a persons body size.
fwiw, I have two Keyless S12U's and two Keyed S12U's, and the one that feels the strangest to me is the keyed Zum S12U 8x5 that has the A-pedal way over to the left under the Keyhead.
It takes me a coupla minutes to get used to the wider spread eagle position needed to play it, but, uhhhh... the chicks love it.

It's totally personal preference and the main thing is having the pedals and levers all line up so you can play the thing.
I'm 5'7"-and a quarter.
A buddy of ours Mike Winter Jr. is like 6'2", and can barely play any of my steels without looking like he's doing a cannon-ball.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 10 May 2014 10:05 am

I'm 6'1" and I play a keyless U-12 with 8 X 6. Pedal 8 is only a couple of inches from the volume pedal, so it is a bit awkward playing P7 and P8 with the left foot. Having observed Buddy's extensive use of the right foot on P7 and P8, I have been trying to develop that skill. I would prefer that the pedals were farther to the left. I have to live with it though, because I have had really bad luck with keyed Uni guitars. I owned two and played several others, and all of the keyed U-12 guitars had unacceptable (to me) detuning and pitch return problems.... most noticeable on string 6.
All of my 10 string guitars are keyed, and I like them all.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 10 May 2014 12:02 pm

I'm designing and building an S12 at the moment, so I'm interested in all this. On my D10 8 x 5 the 1st pedal is under the keyhead and the 2nd is about level with the nut. (As I play Day, I find this comfortable and I sometimes wonder what it's like to have such a wide E9 stance, although Pete's given us an insight

) There is space on the rack for an extra pedal and plenty of space for the volume pedal - I use both feet sometimes.

On the S12 I shall have a keyless tuner and seven pedals, and it will go 0 - B - A - 8 - 5 - 7 - (9). As there's no P6, P7 should be only as far right as before. (BTW what I 'm calling P9 is the 3rd string semitone raise on the C6 - 5th string B to C on the uni. I know it's available as a split elsewhere, but it's handy next to 7. Because I don't know whether it's best to raise 7 to G# or lower 6 to F#, the zero pedal will do both.)

I shall still have room for an extra pedal if I decide I need it. The bridge and nut are both 2Â½" from the ends, giving an overall length of 29". This is partly for symmetry although I've left plenty of space for the tuner as I'm not sure how small I can make it. Like many players, I sit a little to the right of the 12th fret, so if I can shave any off the tuner end I will.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 10 May 2014 12:47 pm

Pete Burak wrote:It takes me a coupla minutes to get used to the wider spread eagle position needed to play it, but, uhhhh... the chicks love it.

Thanks Pete, I've been looking at this all wrong!

Dean Cavill · Post by **Dean Cavill** » 11 May 2014 8:46 am

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I think I'll bite the bullet and order up a Williams Keyless Uni. Considering I use pedals 7 & 8 once every 6 months this shouldn't be a big deal.

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 11 May 2014 3:25 pm

I play a keyed U12 guitar.
I'm of the opinion that shifting the pedals right for any reason would makes the guitar more ergonomic. Rocking off from, or, onto pedal 1, while holding pedal 2 down (very common PSG licks) with my leg positioned to the far left, as is necessary, has given me cramps before.