What to buy after playing Sierra for years?

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 3 May 2014 4:25 am

I've played exclusively Sierra keyless steels for the last 20 years, still own two but due to recently purchasing a second home in Florida want a steel to keep there as well.
My first choice is to buy another S10 Sierra but since they're not being produced new anymore, I'm limited to buying a used one....no luck with that so far.
I like the keyless and want to stay with that so what do you guys recommend that's "similar" to Sierra, knowing of course they're aren't any....each brand tends to be unique.
Williams? GFI? Excel?
Just want S10 on single body, 3 and 4.
Oh.....lastly, any comments on string breakage?
As good as my Sierra is, I'm still plagued not only with third string breakage but the $&#% little ball end and stub would fall into the changer, wreaking havoc on the rocker arms!
I can't wait for ISGC to see different models in person, need to decide now.
Opinions would be appreciated!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 3 May 2014 6:26 am

I like Williams guitars quite a bit. And they are great guys to deal with.

Larry Waisner · Post by **Larry Waisner** » 3 May 2014 7:07 am

Hi Tony,
The Rittenberry S-10 is the cat's meow. Looks,sound,smooth playing and the standard options that comes on the guitar is awesome.
Best Regards,
Larry Waisner

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 3 May 2014 7:39 am

I think, if the string end thing is your big beef, Williams.
Excel would be worth a look.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 3 May 2014 7:56 am

Tony, In later years Sierra made a design change that eliminated the ball end from falling into the changer.
If you want another Sierra I would watch the Steels For Sale section or maybe put an ad in the Wanted To Buy section.
They do pop up from time to time.
One thing I have read that some guys have done is to cut a small strip of foam and push it down into the area behind/below the changer fingers, so the ball end wont be able to fall into the changer.
I have a keyless Sierra S12U and do not have a string breakage problem, so if the string is breaking right by the ball-end maybe there is a little burr on the back of the changer finger just above the windings that is cutting your string?
Maybe try sliding a small piece of shrink wrap over the windings and see if that eliminates breakage?
Just a thought.
Williams makes a beautiful keyless steel.
GFI also makes an affordable keyless that might be a good fit for you.
Some guys are using the new pro-student models as an affordable 2nd or 3rd steel. GFI makes one. Also Zum has the "Stage One" and/or "Encore" models.
Pete B

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 3 May 2014 6:55 pm

Tony:

I have had many steels and keyless models. If I was playing a keyless again I would get another Williams as you can get a lacquer or Mica body and the string change is user friendly. My Williams also had a several position split coil pickup and had nice variations of sound.

Boating season coming up fast in RI.

Lenny

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 3 May 2014 7:46 pm

Thanks guys. I'm feeling the consensus is for Williams and although I never played one I do remember checking them out at ISGC and was impressed how straight the string seems to lie across the neck, without that sharp 90 degree bend like my Sierra.
I've sanded and buffed that third string changer smooth and they still break at exactly the same place

And the same string breaks in the same place on both the Sierras so maybe this is a blessing in disguise. The last time it broke it drew blood!
And I DO have a little ugly piece of foam to deflect that little ball end away from falling into the changer. So while I really like the machining and workmanship of the instrument, I wouldn't mind going over to something more reliable.
Now I have to see how long it will take for delivery.
Lenny were you happy with the tone of your Williams?
And yes, the boat gets splashed next week

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 4 May 2014 5:06 am

Tony, The one guitar I am sorry I sold was the Williams. It was light. had an airy tone and the mechanics were smooth. At the time, the wood lacquer and mica were the same cost.

Sold my motorcycle & pontoon boat. Changing lanes with my toys...*L*

Lenny

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 May 2014 5:27 am

HAH! Your toys have no effect on me.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 4 May 2014 5:30 am

Lane:

Whoever has the most toys wins....

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 4 May 2014 7:02 am

Len Amaral wrote:Lane:

Whoever has the most toys wins....

WRONG!!! The guy with the loudest amp wins.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 May 2014 7:09 am

Umm, Super Twin, Session 500, Twin, LTD. Daisy chain them and I got tone and volume.
(Len you said you were "changing Lanes"...)

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 4 May 2014 8:22 am

Lane:

You are my HERO!....

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 4 May 2014 9:09 am

Tony Palmer wrote: And the same string breaks in the same place...

Where is the string breaking?
Are you using an .011?
How many hours of play time do you get out of a string before it breaks?... Every gig?... every 3 gigs?
Just curious.

fwiw, I replace the high G# on all of my steels way more than any of the other strings, and always replace it before it breaks on a gig (every 3-4 gigs or so - approx every 10 hours of play time). The rest of the set can easily last 6 months, and then the next string I start to worry about is the high-B, string-5, but I change the whole set at that time.

Pete B.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 4 May 2014 12:18 pm

What to buy after playing Sierra for years?

another Sierra

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 4 May 2014 7:25 pm

I would recommend another used Sierra, but an Excel or Williams would be next best for you if you want something new (or even used if you can find one).

Will Cowell · Post by **Will Cowell** » 4 May 2014 10:55 pm

I just don't know what's with this string breakage thing. Everyone talks like it's a regular aspect of life.

I have a Williams 700 U12 keyless and I have to confess that I haven't put a new set of strings on since I bought it last year. In 13 months' regular playing - at least an hour a day plus any gigs - I have yet to see *any* string break. It still sounds bright and clear.

Ok, sure, I should have changed them ages ago, but I didn't. By now I'm kind of intrigued to see how long this can go on! I have a bunch of spare .011 strings just in case, but....

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 5 May 2014 4:26 am

Tony..Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that the keyless Sierras have a 25" scale which if so, may or may not contribute to excessive string breakage. Remember reading that when first adding pedals to early model non pedal guitars, it was necessary to reduce the scale length to minimize this problem.

Matthew Beall · Post by **Matthew Beall** » 5 May 2014 4:29 am

My Williams U12 is almost a year old; it has never broken a 3rd string.

Roy McKinney · Post by **Roy McKinney** » 5 May 2014 4:50 am

I have a 2000 Sierra D10 and a 2001 Sierra SD10, both keyless and 25" neck. I might break a G# string about every 3 months or so and they break at the winding. Been using Jagwire, but now using Live string. Haven't broke one of them yet.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 5 May 2014 6:35 am

I've got a couple of D10 keyless Sierras at the shop as well as an SD12 if you are interested.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 5 May 2014 7:51 am

I'd like to buy a Sierra but I only want an S10 no other configuration.
Dave yes it's a 25" scale and maybe that contributes to needing extra tension to bring it up to pitch.
I use .11's and I would say I can get three 4 hour gigs out of a third string.
Since they always break right where the string makes a 90 degree bend at the ball end I'm intrigued by the Williams which I believe does not have that radical bend in the string.
I can't help feel this is a design flaw that never was completely solved.
I'd still buy another one if I found it but if I don't in the next couple of weeks I'm going the Williams route. Time waits for no one!

Bill Stafford · Post by **Bill Stafford** » 5 May 2014 10:03 am

Highly recommend the new EXCEL Superb model, keyless, 25 1/2" scale, changer capability is 7 rasises, 5 lowers. The new changer mechanism is head and shoulders above anything on the market today, as is the new Mitsuo Fujii pickup. New design in the keyless head also. Worth a close look. Check out the EXCEL sight on Facebook that John Heinrich manages and hear some music from the EXCELS.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 5 May 2014 2:57 pm

Hi Tony:

How many pedals & Knees are you going to have? My concept was have the guitar loaded and take something off if you don't like it rather than trying to add it later.

I swore Iwould never buy another pedal steel but I designed a 10 string Universal hybrid E9-B6 on a single ten body that will weigh about 25 pounds. Will keep it in my garage with a small amp so I don't have to carry anything . Looking to play out again starting summer.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 5 May 2014 3:24 pm

Kline.

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What to buy after playing Sierra for years?

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