How to learn when the copedants are so different?

[Michael DeGruccio]

Greetings!
I am going to be learning on a GFI Ultra E9 w the company's default settings for 3 pedals and 4 levers. I am getting down the pedals as they seem to be nearly universal. But the levers seem to vary a good deal-- so much that if I were to buy a chord book or a training video I might be pretty confused (this stuff doesn't come real easy to me.)
Is there a name for the particular default GFI copedants? and what would you recommend for literature and self-training that would line up with that literature?
(I mostly just want to learn to play chords and accompany)

[Scott Duckworth]

I know others disagree, but I say learn it E9 Emmons setup (which is what you have). Once you get it mastered, then you can explore other copendents.

Here are some things to help get you going...
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/e9theory.htm

http://www.jmlmusic.ca/leitepsg/Pedal%2 ... DRAFT5.pdf

Also, ask Patricia Warnock for a copy of her E9 chord chart. A must have for reference.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=147199

Also this site is good...
http://steelguitaramerica.com/

Things to practice that DO make a difference...
Picking exercises - get's your finger muscle memory set to the string spacing.

Blocking - palm or finger, or both - but DON'T obsess. It will come.

Chords, scales, and "pockets" - some of the materials above deal with this.

I've been at it about a year, and staring to see results.

Good luck. STUDY HARD!

[Jason Putnam]

Not sure on this as I'm pretty new too, but I think GFI probably has standard Emmons setup. E raises and lowers on the left. It's really not that important where they are at. What's important is to know what they do. My new guitar has the e raises on the right knees and I am already becoming comfortable with it. Just concentrate on learning which notes change with each lever. Then when you get some instruction material you will understand which lever you need to use. It might be in a different location but you can go though and make note of it. Soon it will be second nature to you.

[Lane Gray]

If this (minus the vertical) is your setup, you have a pretty good setup: http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Table ... Tables.htm
While a lot of different copedents abound (I'm close to that, but on my RKL I don't raise 2 and 1 only goes to G: the 2 to E and 1 to G# are on a pedal), you can get nearly everything you hear on both pop and classic country records with that setup.
On the tab from the various sources, the levers go by different names, but they'll still use pretty much those same pulls your guitar has. It doesn't matter WHAT the author calls them, you can just know that if you see a lever marked on a string (except 4 and , there's only one lever, press it.
For the E strings, since one lever raises it and one lever lowers it, you'll learn to recognise it from context: If the song is on the D chord and you're on the third fret, the lever most likely to get used will be the lower, because that makes an F#, and the raise lever would give you a G#, which will sound REALLY wonky against the D. If the melody is on an F and you're on 4, they're probably using the raise.
Herb Steiner's tab doesn't use letters for levers or pedals, it says things like (on the line for the 5th fret, for instance) "10++", meaning that you'll hit the fifth string at the tenth fret with the A pedal. If it said, also on the fifth fret, "10+", you'd apply HALF of the A pedal.
Hopefully that made sense to you.

[Michael DeGruccio]

Thanks for everything so far. My biggest confusion (besides the murky ways I understand theory --slow, slow, but eventually) is that the GFI seems to match up with most setups except for the RKL and RKR. The left is really confusing at it raises 1 and 2 (full step and half step respectively) while lowering the 6 a full step. I don't have the kind of brains and theory to figure all of that out. The "standard" set up I have seen elsewhere seems to be a little simpler than this.
Translating a chord book that assumes my right levers do something else would max out my brain capacity in trying to convert things.

[Lane Gray]

Don't let RKL confuse you. It doesn't function as one unified change (normally): the 1 & 2 raise will hardly ever get used at the same time as the 6 lower. Since the two changes rarely get used together, but both changes are desirable, you pop them on the same lever so you can have the effect of 5 levers while only having 4.
Over the last 20 years, the 1&2 raise has become really common, it just allows a 2 (scale degree, for chord construction we call it 9-because chords are built in thirds) to move up to a unison with the 3 on the third string.
The 6th string lower works just the inverse of the A pedal, it drops 3 down to 2. This has both melody and harmony uses.

[Jerome Hawkes]

this is one reason i think new players should concentrate on just the 3x1 setup until they grasp the concepts behind why these additional knees were added. if you throw the kitchen sink copedant at any beginner, its just too much to wrap your head around when in reality, 90% of what your gonna play is 2x1 anyway.

when a beginner understands, (after spending a lot of time with the 3x1 setup) - ok, they added this knee/pedal change because of some limitation to the standard 3x1 copedant, it all starts to make sense and it doesnt matter where the knees are.

i'm convinced from my own learning curve, that failure to understand the changes in a logical sequence is the major brick wall in grasping the instrument. thats why, i think, after trying to teach thousands of beginner steel players, Jeff Newman developed the 'Up From the Top' instructional series. back in the 'old days' you didnt have this issue, everyone had a 3x1 for the most part and these other changes were added as they gained use/popularity

[Niels Andrews]

I think unless you are going to be a tab player (paint by numbers). It doesn't matter where the pulls are. If you take the time to learn what the different pulls are doing, then it doesn't matter. If you just want to follow somebody Else's music (tab), then standardizing to Emmons or Day would be the way to go. I don't think a musician can learn too much theory.

[Lane Gray]

Even if you start with tab, it doesn't matter what they call the pulls or where they put them. Back in the 80s, the handful of tab sources I knew of called the levers different letters, but you quickly learn to dissociate names (F, D, G, X), locations (LKL, RKR), and function (drop 6, raise 4). Decoding on the fly actually came pretty quickly.

[Dave Grafe]

It's really not that important where they are at. What's important is to know what they do.

You can spend twenty years just learning how to get the most from 3+2, the musically "essential" changes in that they provide three locations within the octave for your major and minor triads and access to pretty much any other chord you want somewhere in there.

The less standardized right knees on the Emmons setup mostly provide licks and a few more chordal options. There's a lifetime of music to be made with three pedals and a pair of E levers.

[Lane Gray]

Dave, I think that varies with personality: I'd sooner give up my F lever than the 2 lower or 6 lower. But I'm a goofball.

[Richard Sinkler]

And, I would rather give up the string 2 changes than give up one of the E string levers, or even the 6th string lower to F#.

As has been said, just learn what the levers do and you should be OK. If it really is too difficult, figure out which of your levers do what the tab uses. Then you can mark on the tab whether it is RKL, LKR or whatever. That is what I did real early in my learning phase.

[Mike Perlowin]

Don't think of the knee levers as LKL or RKR. Think of them in terms of what they do, not where they are located.

The A pedal and knee lever that raises the e strings form a major chord, regardless of which knee the lever is on, or whether it moves to the left or right.

Jimmy Crawford developed a system of tab that explained what each pedal and knee lever was doing. It's too bad that it never caught on.

[Richard Sinkler]

Mike... If the new player had the ability to do what you say, this thread wouldn't exist.

[Mike Perlowin]

Hi Richard. You're probably right. But it's something people need to learn.

Jimmy Crawford's system taught people how to do that. I think it's the best system I've seen. I think he called it "Musim-tab."

[b0b]

Thanks for everything so far. My biggest confusion (besides the murky ways I understand theory --slow, slow, but eventually) is that the GFI seems to match up with most setups except for the RKL and RKR. The left is really confusing at it raises 1 and 2 (full step and half step respectively) while lowering the 6 a full step.

You can ignore that RKL lever for a while. It's only needed when you have to copy specific licks from modern records. You'll find that it comes in handy now and then when you're figuring out stuff, but a lot of players don't even have it.

The RKR lever lowers the second string to D. The 2nd string is used mostly for scale runs, and you lower it to D when the D# tuning of the string doesn't fit the current scale. If you push the lever past the half-stop, it lowers further to C# - the same note you get with the first pedal, 5th string. That's often used for a unison effect on those 2 strings.

RKR also lowers the 9th string to C#, a change that's useful but not all that important for a beginner. Don't worry about it. Mainly concentrate on getting the second string half stop at D when you need it.

[Richard Sinkler]

Hi Richard. You're probably right. But it's something people need to learn.

Jimmy Crawford's system taught people how to do that. I think it's the best system I've seen. I think he called it "Musim-tab."

I agree on Crawfords tab. The new person could also go through and put the sharps and flats next to the fret numbers if they had too. You're right that they have to learn this stuff, and really, I say to start right from the start with doing the conversions in their head. Knowing what the pedals do and most of all, how they sound is a key to learning the instrument, in my opinion.

[Michael DeGruccio]

You're right that they have to learn this stuff, and really, I say to start right from the start with doing the conversions in their head. Knowing what the pedals do and most of all, how they sound is a key to learning the instrument, in my opinion

Thanks! You are right I better figure out what each of those pedals do at the most fundamental level, and why and what context I would use them! The question is, what is the best book or videos? that will help someone who has basic theory knowledge from 6-string and piano (some scales, the major and minor chords in a given key, etc)? And who is just starting out on the PSG but with some background.

Understanding that the A&B pedals together invert the tonic triad into the IV was very helpful. I would like to keep building on that kind of knowledge: which pedals or levers help me get a minor chord (and why), how to change chords without moving the bar, what pedals/levers will get me an augmented, diminished, or Maj7---and why.

What an incredible instrument!

[Lane Gray]

The best minor chords are relative minors: the A pedal gives you the C#m (vi), and the E lowers gives you the G#m (iii), and the BC pedal (ii)
The Winnie Winston/Bill Keith book is quite good

[Mike Wheeler]

Michael, re-read Mr. Duckworth's post above. His links have what you are looking for. It just takes a little reading and study to gain a full understanding.

The other option would be to get face-to-face with a good teacher...that's always the best choice.

[chris ivey]

then again...steel guitar just might not be the ticket for some people.

[b0b]

It's really a lot easier than you're making it. Pedal/knee combinations are just like bar chords on a guitar neck. Your steel bar is like your index finger across the neck, and each pedal or knee lever is like one of your other fingers on a specific string, a fret or two higher.

It's not rocket science. Don't over-think it.

[Tom Gorr]

Greetings!
I am going to be learning on a GFI Ultra E9 w the company's default settings for 3 pedals and 4 levers. I am getting down the pedals as they seem to be nearly universal. But the levers seem to vary a good deal-- so much that if I were to buy a chord book or a training video I might be pretty confused (this stuff doesn't come real easy to me.)
Is there a name for the particular default GFI copedants? and what would you recommend for literature and self-training that would line up with that literature?
(I mostly just want to learn to play chords and accompany)

Don't let the theoretical complexity of the instrument overwhelm you.

Start with the open string tuning, then migrate to A+B pedals down. Then to A+F. Figure out where your I, IV, and V chords are in any given key, which strings produce it...and why....and learn to slide between them. Use backing tracks with a 12 bar blues progression or something to force yourself along. You'll quickly find out that picking and blocking is your #1 barrier after learning those basic positions and "grips". Then you should focus on technical exercises to improve your picking accuracy and control, and blocking technique(s).

That's year 1....good luck...!

[Lane Gray]

A+B make the IV chord, and E lowers+6 lowers make V.
Since people like using the AB as I (so that you can roll on the A pedal to squeeze the 3 on), from I to IV means going up a fret and going to A+E raise.

[b0b]

I know how to play pretty well, but I didn't understand your post at all, Lane.