48th st NYC

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 18 Nov 2003 8:32 am

Yesterday I was wandering around midtown and I went into Rudy's on 48th st.

On the 2nd floor there were 2 brand new pro level Fessendens for sale ! A black D10 and S10. I checked them out and tuned them for the sales guy up there. It was great to see such great instruments sitting right in the heart of the NYC music scene.

Bob

James Winwood · Post by **James Winwood** » 18 Nov 2003 11:07 am

That's good news. Rudy's have any other steel related items to go with those steels, picks, bars, strings? They do high end guitars and custom work mostly if I remember correctly.

Lawrence Lupkin · Post by **Lawrence Lupkin** » 18 Nov 2003 1:19 pm

Jeez Bob, I thought your days of loitering around Times Square ended with Giuliani.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Nov 2003 2:09 pm

David Friedlander · Post by **David Friedlander** » 18 Nov 2003 2:16 pm

Hi all,
I also went into Rudy's to check out the Fessies.

I'm afraid that this is not the proper place to entice more NYer's into buying a steel.
When I went in, the guitars were set up in such a way that you could not sit behind them.
The salesperson actually told me that they could not be moved. They looked pretty, but it's really kind of hard to sell guitars if you don't let folks play them.

What we really need is a store to set up a pro model, with volume padal, in an environment that encouages players to try it.
48th Street is really loosing all diversity. Now that Sam's ASH owns Manny's, and 48th Street custom guitars is history, Rudy is the last independant.
Nice looking store, but I've never felt comfortable buying anything there.

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 18 Nov 2003 7:25 pm

How much were they asking? Nine gajillion dollars?

Sam Ash, to their credit, had some Carter Starters in stock on 48th... yes, I was really really surprised about that.

It only got mentioned because i was looking at the Holy Grail they had, and the guy said he had a steel if I wanted to play around with the box.

Sadly, the Grail was not so holy... half-functional, it seemed. but still, thanks to the 800 lb. gorilla for carrying the pedal steel.

I was actually going to go look at the Fessenden's at Rudy's but I am def. not going to if I can't even play them a bit... do they not let you play the other guitars???

David Friedlander · Post by **David Friedlander** » 18 Nov 2003 7:47 pm

Well, maybe Bob got them to turn them around so you could sit down.

I really think that just putting Carter starters on the floor does little.
You need a bar, a volume pedal, and a slaesperson who knows enough to do a simple demonstration is what you need.
Also while we're at it, how about a place in the Big Apple to buy a volume pedal, or .....a ...pick?

Hold on, my alarm clock is ringing, because I know I'm dreaming if I expect this to happen, right?

PS-Actually, Rudy's usually does have some nice picks

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 18 Nov 2003 9:09 pm

They were very nice to me. They let me play them all I wanted. The sales guy thats up there that is into them is named Gordon. Real nice kid. These are top level instruments and unless Gordon is mixed up about the price they are a very good deal. I didn't see a volume pedal but they had one of those ubiquitous Dunlop 12st bars. My own picks are always handy but they do sell picks there. I played through an AER amp that was very impressive. The levers could use a little fine tweaking for feel. The S10 had a single coil in it and the D10 had some sort of George L pickups.

Times Square is just not the same any more. I prefer the old mafia to the new Disney mafia. Its a damn shame. The theater were I saw "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS" for the very first time is now a corporate tee shirt emporium.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 18 November 2003 at 10:29 PM.]

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 19 Nov 2003 4:10 am

Rudy's is not the kind of place where you can just grab a guitar off the shelf and play. They have real expensive instruments and cater to serious players/buyers- it's not your local music store where all the rocknroll kids come to try instruments.
If you are serious about wanting to try the Fessies, just be persistant but pleasant, a manager will come out and set you up for a test run, without question.
Last year my wife tried 4 different Amps for over an hour at Rudy's. We also were told by some youngster that the amps couldnt be moved but persistance paid off.
My wife and daughter tried 3 or 4 accoust/electrics at Rudys about 6 yrs ago and
had no problems.
I think they try and screen out the initial looky-loos, but are always very businesslike
and helpful when you display some seriousness.
If you want to try the Fessies bring your own bar & picks.
BTW- they make good cash deals too!

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 19 Nov 2003 4:46 am

A few weeks ago I was also slumming on 48th St.

There was a Carter Starter at Sam Ash, with 9 strings and out of tune.

There was also Carter Starter at Manny's, just out of tune.

It didn't look like these steels were touched in a long time. I didn't inquire about them as from previous experience, their staff has better things to do than to assist customers.

I went to Rudy's and saw the 2 Fessendens. Unlike the other 2 stores, there was an amp (AER Compact 60), a bar, & picks arranged in an invitingly way and the back of the steels were facing the perspective customer. The message was "try me."

I didn't speak to anyone there about the steels. I was afraid that they would have offered me a job......mopping the floor

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 19 Nov 2003 9:17 am

the randolph effect

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Nov 2003 10:46 am

I like Rudy's a lot - easily the best Manhattan guitar store. Of course, if we extend our perimeter to include Staten Island, then Mandolin Bros is best!

I bought an old Tele from Rudy a few years back - he - and the staff - were always helpful, and Rudy remembered my name from previous visits even BEFORE I bought that Tele.

I do enjoy their acoustic room on the second floor - is this where the steels are? There was a very knowledgable guy called John (Italian surname?) who was happy to let me play all the guitars I wanted. On one occasion, I just missed James Taylor's visit - he was recording across the street at 'Right Track', and wandered in to see and play some guitars

.....

RR

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Nov 2003 10:52 am

PS>>>>>

The most ill-prepared new steel I've ever seen in a music store has to be that Sierra S10 that used to be in Sam Ash on Gallatin.

The 'A' pedal raised the 5th and 10th at least a step and a half, the knee lowered the two 'E's by differing amounts, and the strings were rusty - it'd be hard to imagine anyone being tempted to take the plunge with such an instrument! It wasn't cheap, either...

RR

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Nov 2003 12:44 pm

I am posting this against my better judgement
for reasons of my own. I find it difficult to avoid subjects regarding Fender and this
subject regarding 48th Street is no exception

48th Street today is a skeleton as it once was when I called on every music store on that street for many many years.

Often times 48th street has been the topic
of controversy due to the discounts they offered on brand name merchandise and what is reffered to as "buy it in the box" pay for it and you own it".

Most dealers in all parts of the country did
not ( for use of a better word) approve of the business practice of the Music stores on West 48th Street) as those on 48th street were shipping mail order all over the country
which interfered with their market and customers and for that I can well understand.

This was looked upon by those as being what is known back here as "schlock" meaning dont care for the Customer or Music retailers out of the New York City area like throw it out the door and dont care about the customer.That is highly overstated,but at times it was the case I have to admit. I
had to try to curb that practice and iwas difficult,but my personal relationship with people who owned those stores showed their respect for me and tried hard to please myself and yet satisfy the customer. It happened.

I called on the dealers who made Fender what it is today as well as those all over the USA
Those remaining today are fall short of the proffesional people who operated the music stores back then,,discounts or no discounts.

Most all of the top pro's shopped 48th street not only because of the price advantage but was the "in place" to be.

What remains is the skeleton of the great people and great stores that were the original West 48th street.

Terminal Music (first ever Fender Dealer)
Jimmys Music Shop ( another first ever Fender dealer with a small store and one main
line on merchandise FENDER)

Ponte Music primarily a band Instrument specialty shop with knowledgable musicians who knew how to merchandise and sell a product.

It was in 1965 after many years of trying to obtain the Fender dealership that I myself made the decision to open Manny Goldrich as a Fender dealer and I took much flack for that move both locally and all over the USA.

Those store's are no more and many of the people who pioneered lines like Fender,Martin Gibson are also gone as well.

I would call on each of the above mentioned accounts every week like clock work and although the competetive feeling amongst them was there, off the ball field they were all friends. Many times lunch was a Tuna salad sandwich with Manny using a using a Dual Showman amp as a table

other times was a real treat having a great Pastrami sandwich brought in from the Second Ave delicatessen, having lunch in ths store behind the counter with Bucky Pizzerelli and Tony Mottola.

Sometimes we really lived it up and had a hot dog from a vendor on the corner of 6th Ave and West 48th street,,and yes we got a discount and extra mustard and sauerkraut because of who we were, we were reffered to as "The Rat Pack of 48th St. The so called competitors were friends and many times had dinner as a group at Patsys in Manhattan and we had fun regardless that those at the table were competing during the day,but friends after dark.Few people realized this.

Frank had Dean,Sammy,Joey,Peter, we had our own pack and a closer bond you couldnt find,
Am I bragging?? sure and I am proud of it.

I have been to the bar mitsvah's and the funerals the church services the marriage of their children,the mourning over a loved one called a "shivah" and I'm not Yiddish but it mattered not and the parties over the years and I could not have had a better bunch of friends that those I mentioned.

Sam Ash did not come on the scene till later on in the late 60's Ash was a Brooklyn,Long Island based operation,when Terminal closed Jerry and Paul Ash moved into West 48th St.

In my time there was no shortage of steel guitars,,I saw to that and many pedal 1000 2000's and non pedal steel guitars were sold by those above and they knew how to sell them and I helped maintain them for them as well. That was my job.

The last store to move in was Rudy after Rockefeller purchased a large part of W48th street,Jimmy chose to accept the payout and closed. Manny built a beautiful new store that you see today which is owned by Sam Ash Inc.

I went to 48th street a few years ago and had to leave,because the memories of those people who have gone and the excitment of what I recall was no more.

I dont consider myself being "off topic here" which I have been accused of more than
once,I just wanted to give you a tiny piece
of the history of 48th street that was a big part of my life as well as the friends I had back then.

I raised two children and my life was on that street with many of the well known artists of today both with Fender and other music greats.

Thats all I have to say and this is only a small part of my memories of that well known sometimes disliked street. Speak kindly when you speak of the 48th street this Fender saleman remembers.

It would take me weeks and weeks to tell all of you what my expieriences were on West 48th street.

You will have a chance to read about it soon.

Thanks for your time my friends.Long story yes,but not long enough to acknowledge those
I had and still have the highest respect for

If you see a vendor selling Hot Dogs and Hot Chestnuts,mention my name,you may get a little more sauerkraut and a few extra nuts.
Make certain the vendor washes his hands before serving,bring along a Dual Showman box and sit down on the corner and have a great lunch,It dont get any better than that.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 01:32 PM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 19 Nov 2003 1:21 pm

I forget now whether it was Terminal or Alex Music where I bought my Farfisa Mini Compact in '66. My first axe. Bar Mitzvah money. I sure was a different time.
In a world where a customer will cross the street and go to a competitor's shop to save $.50 it's hard to know who to blame for mercenary business practices. I've been loyal to dealers who know my name and try to find what I'm looking for. I'll even pay extra for the relationship. And I've gone across the street when the dealer gave me the attitude of "go across the street. What do I care". Hey, happy to oblige.

As to 48th St.--I too have done my bit and tuned Sam Ash's Carter Starter. Showed the salesdude an AB pedal lick. His eyes lit up. Maybe he made a sale later. The guitar sure played better with all four legs screwed in, too.
Very cool that Rudy's has the Fess's. Got to get up there. I wonder if you are right about the RR effect, Ed.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Nov 2003 1:38 pm

Jon
Alex returned to his homeland and passed away a few years back. Alex came on the scene later on than some of the orgiginals I mentioned. I beleive Alex was from Argentina,,do you remember Sergio?? he is with Sam Ash now. What few know if any,,there was no 48th street so far as being recognized as a music row,,

It all began years ago by a couple of partners Herb Horland & Harry Silver known in the music industry as Silver & Horland
who operated out of Park Row near the bridge that connected NYC to Brooklyn.

It was there that Manny Goldrich Sr started as a clerk as well as Ed Meyers who later opened his store Terminal Music on West 48th st as well as Manny Goldrich.

It was Silver & Horland who would offer the lowest selling price to sell the product and work on the theory,,save the customer money and we have a loyal customer.

Silver & Horland closed their doors back in the mid 1960's and Harry Silvers son Richard
bought out Terminal music.But not long after
when the bubble burst and the retail business took a nosedive,,Richard Silver pulled out and went into an un related venture with his wife.

When people speak of W 48th st.I can say with authority that I am one of the few if NOT the only one who was there when it all took place.

Have a Great Holiday

Broadway Joe

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 02:10 PM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Nov 2003 2:06 pm

Thanks for that interesting 'post', Jody.

I could tell you similar stories about London's music stores in the 'fifties and early 'sixties before the invasion of the 'guitar supermarket' mentality.

The guys in those stores knew their stuff and cared for the customer. A friendly rivalry existed, but my abiding memory is of Jimmy Frost, Mike King, Jim Marshall (who went on to found the amplifier manufacturing business) and a dozen others.

The much-beloved Pete Dyke - an amazing jazz guitarist - who would patiently offer his knowledge and wisdom to us younger players. He would gently make fun of our efforts (he prefered extended chords to Buddy Holly solos!), but was endlessly encouraging of our aspirations. A wonderful man who is sadly missed.

Where are the 'Pete Dykes' today? Not in any store I'VE seen in the last twenty years - going to a music store now is no more exciting than calling into Home Depot.

When I came to NYC for the first time in the mid-nineties, I made a bee-line for 48th Street 'cause I just HAD to see Mannies! Well, it was a big disappointment - ill-adjusted guitars carelessly banging against each other in too-little-space, and 'salespersons' barely worthy of the title.

Jody, I didn't know the 48th Street that you describe, but I can promise you that I can easily imagine it......

Best,

Roger Rettig

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Nov 2003 2:17 pm

but I can promise you that I can easily imagine it quote Roger...... Roger even the Hot Dogs dont taste as good and cost three times as much,,I know,,I have hot dog stand on 46th and I'm waiting for a spot in the big time 2 blocks away on 48th street.

I have the exclusive on "Sabrett" frankfurters. Roll is optional.

Look for me,I have a Tweed covered umbrella

edited to add relish

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 02:18 PM.]

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 19 Nov 2003 2:46 pm

Wow, Terminal & Alex music. I bought my first tenor from Terminal I think in '60. Bought a nice brass mouthpiece from Alex a few years later, sorry to hear of his passing... 48th has
changed a lot but what hasnt in NY?

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Nov 2003 2:54 pm

... 48th has
changed a lot but what hasnt in NY?

The KNISHES..

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 19 Nov 2003 2:57 pm

I'd hate to be a jazz dude from the 40's and take a walk on 52nd today. Yeah, it's not quite the same town. But neither is Boise (I reckon). Great stuff (as always), Jody. So Silver & Horland would have been where J&R is today, I guess?

---had an awful knish the other day. But I guess you could find an awful one back then too.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 19 November 2003 at 02:58 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Nov 2003 3:05 pm

But I guess you could find an awful one back then too.

Yes, but only if CBS had anything to do with it. And you are right,,Thats where J&R is today.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 19 Nov 2003 5:15 pm

I just bought a pre-CBS Knish on eBay and it was nearly worth it!

Talk about blackpanel, though...maybe it needs new gelfilte caps...

Jody, thanks very much for your posts! You da Man![This message was edited by John McGann on 19 November 2003 at 05:17 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Nov 2003 5:32 pm

maybe it needs new gelfilte caps...
That can be handled by the Carnegie Delicatessen. They are owned by CBS.

No one know this..but I may as well tell you.

CBS stands for C orned B eef S andwich.

Edited to add Penicillin Chicken Soup.

I used to say that CBS stood for

C onstant B ull S.....T

thats when I left

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 05:36 PM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 19 Nov 2003 9:43 pm

I'll even pay extra for the relationship

You have to go to 9th ave for that....